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Thread: What did you expect? (An Honest Question)

  1. #1
    ElectroGardener interface2x's Avatar
    February 3rd, 2002

    Agree? Yes No

    Question What did you expect? (An Honest Question)

    Okay, as is evidenced by the majority of the threads in this forum, you people (and a lot of others) just plain don't like the new solo albums by Dave and Martin. That's cool, to each his own.

    So what I want to know is this - for all of you who were excited about the release of these album only to be let down when you heard them, what were you expecting? What about the finished product of each of these albums is different from what you thought you were going to hear?

    And now, if you were able to go back in time to before the albums were made and were given divine powers (aside from the obvious time travel, Doc Brown), what would you have each of the albums sound like? What songs would you want Martin to cover and in what style would you want them? What genre would you want Dave's album to be in? Let's leave off the obvious never-gonna-happen scenarios like Alan producing them both. I'm talking about realistic expectations here.

    I'll answer my own questions ... what did I expect? Pretty much what I got. Martin's said in interviews over the past few years that he's overwhelmingly into slower bpm's, so I knew we wouldn't get a stomper on the album. I knew he was into really obscure stuff, so I wasn't surprised when I didn't know any of the original songs. I figured that since he was working with a few of the same people from "Exciter", it would naturally have that feel.

    As for Dave's, the only thing that surprised me on his was the slow tempo and use of electronics. To be honest, I expected a full-on rock album, with little to no synth. Turns out that the album is full of ballads and has a lot of synth in there. Yeah, the lyrics are pretty simplistic, but I think his vocal delivery is pretty much similar to his live performances. Makes sense, he craves that live feel right now. I would prefer better lyrics and a more uptempo rock/blues album to be honest, but I'm not unhappy with what I've got.

    What would I have them sound like? I don't know. I've never been good at predicting what a band should sound like. I'm amazed at how often a band I like will release an album that sounds very different from the previous ones - only to find myself more impressed with the NEW sound. I trust my favorite bands for the most part. Yeah, sometimes they strike out, but that's bound to happen. In the cases of the solo albums, I'd give them both firm 3 out of 5's.

    So what are your thoughts?
    \"I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.\"
    - Homer Simpson

  2. #2
    Guest test's Avatar

    Agree? Yes No


    Martin's album blew me away. I could not believe how great C2 is. I was REALLY worried when I first heard that people didn't like it. I was afraid that this would be a bad album, and it isn't. It continues with the blips and clicks that are on Exciter, which I like. He released a complete album. The first Counterfeit ended just as it got going. This album has a beginning, a middle and an end. I love his versions of the songs that are on the album. Martin produced an electronic album that I absolutely adore.

    I expected Dave's album to have songs that were good. I expected that his songs would be full and complete. His songs have lots of choruses and mini choruses but not enough verses. His songs are weak. He should have concentrated on say, 5 or 6 complete songs instead of the 10, I think it is that are on his album. He just doesn't have enough to write for a full song. He should have stuck with an EP and had complete songs. I have NO problem with the music but the actual lyrics themselves are just plain weak.

    I also expected to have an album with great vocals. Dave CAN sing on dM records, but my god, the man is out of tune on a LOT of the songs on his album. I could NOT believe how horrid Dave sounds. I actually had to shut the cd player off. I NEVER do that with a dM album. This album has poor vocals and horrid lyrics. I have listened to the album 3 times and each time it was awful.

    I would give:

    The Counterfeit EP 4/5 stars
    Counterfeit 2 5/5 stars
    Paper Monsters 0/5 stars

  3. #3

    Agree? Yes No

    Default dirty sticky floors

    I love the new Dave Gahan album. It wasn't what I was expecting, exactly. What was I expecting - nothing grand. I am quite pleased with it. It is an adult album that shows some growth and potential. The lyrics aren't as consistant as they could be. I imagine they will mature more over time.

    The song structure and delivery is solid. I really like it.


    Depeche Mode is dead - long live Dave Gahan

    "it's a mode we get into sometimes...I feel a little Depeche right now" - vh1, I love the 80's

  4. #4

    Agree? Yes No


    I expected them both to be good, I suppose. I like Dave's tribute song "A song for Europe" a lot, so I had high hopes.
    I love counterfeit in its brief entirety, so I was disappointed with C2. But now I really like 8 of the songs, and they hold my interest, which is something Dave couldn't do at ALL. I gave it several listens, but I just cannot STAND his solo CD. And his lyrics don't do anything for me either. I even listened to the samples of the B sides for the singles, but again, nothing interesting at all.

    So Martin gets 4/5 stars, and Dave gets 2/5
    \"the hours of your life were mismeasured,
    yet the missing time crawls, seeps grudgingly
    from your halted vessels and quiet bloodstream,
    from the soul-open stillness of your heart,
    to the uncaring mask that has become your face\"

    from \"deadhand deadface\"

  5. #5

    Agree? Yes No


    I knew Martin's cd wasn't going to be the music I liked, however after a few listens I actually grew to like it. I actually appreciate many of the unique sounds on the album. I thought it was much better than any of my expectations. After the concert, I liked the songs even more . I compared Loverman to the original song and to Martin's cover and I can honestly say I think Martin made the song much better.

    As for Dave, I was hoping for something fresh, new, very unique with all the bluesy and rock that Dave likes. Maybe a little like SOFAD or like his Song for Europe? Yet, his album wasn't anything near what I thought. To put it bluntly I don't like it. I think it is too popish, too mainstream (maybe these are not the right words, but it is the best I can think of right now). I am not moved by it and frankly I don't listen to music that doesn't move me or at least give me some deep emotion.. it is just to radio friendly I guess..

    However Dave's solo work still doesn't change my ideas of him. I still think he is really cool, fun, and strong for getting over his problems. I also think he is a good singer and that he is getting better in his vocal variations..

    Just a thought...
    Can you feel the satin sea
    So deeply blue, inside of me ~Diary of Dreams

  6. #6
    Lead ElectroGardener KissTheStar's Avatar
    November 27th, 2001
    Nashville, TN

    Agree? Yes No


    Well I wanted a hamburger and a hot dog and a milkshake ....

    but I got nothing and like it ....

  7. #7
    Lead ElectroGardener cliffwalk's Avatar
    February 22nd, 2002

    Agree? Yes No


    Originally posted by Kiss*the*Star
    Well I wanted a hamburger and a hot dog and a milkshake ....

    but I got nothing and like it ....

    My initial response to Martin's album was very simple:

    WTF is this noise? I hate it, make it stop... he's killing some very beautiful songs...

    Two weeks later:

    I woke up and fell in love with it and actually did a 180. Never before have I had trouble "ACCEPTING" a new sound but I really didn't like what I heard in the samples. By the time it was released I loved the samples and bought the CD.

    My reponse to Dave's album hasn't changed:

    Yawn. Nothing new going on. It's just like every other "Alternative Rock" album on the radio with maybe a "TOUCH" more synth. Pass the wassabe.

    PS: Haven't bought the CD. Borrowed a friends copy for an evening and gave it back with a smile the next day.

    What did I expect?

    Exactly what I got, really.

    I'm not disappointed in either one of them.

    I never thought Dave was all that great of a musician anyways. I DO think he matured as a vocalist which I have to give him props for. I wish he sang as well as he does now but had the range and power he had 10 years ago.

    Martin delivered. I'd love to hear Martin do more Martin-written stuff with new collaborators OR frankly, if he wants to explore doing more covers... I LOVE his taste in music.

    If you\'re reading this, you have a tiny penis.

  8. #8

    Agree? Yes No


    I am so disappointed.
    I thought Dave is going to sing 10 different versions of Personal Jesus and Martin is going to sing Enjoy the Silence in multiple
    different languages. I want my money back.
    Once again, Dave probaby has over $10 million.
    Since, Matin wrote all the songs, he probably has $20 million.
    They are in their late 40s. They are writing music for themselves now. They don't care that they are losing the Violator fans. (ElectroRock) (Breaks) (IDM) (Industrial)

    \"There is no abstract art. You must always start with something. Afterward you can remove all traces of reality.\"
    - Pablo Picasso

    \"The world only goes round by misunderstanding.\"
    - Charles Baudelaire

    \"It is quality, not quantity.\"

    \"why is it feel like a greatful dead show here? like that hippe that constantly talks about one band and how they changed their lives.\"

    PLEASE NO MORE \"I am a robot music.\" You are not a robot. Learn to program better like human beings.\"

    Electro is House music. If you don\'t like House music, please don\'t put down Electro, because it is trendy to say it. It might suprise you that Electro and House music were invented by Gay Black Americans in the mid 80s. They weren\'t invented by the beatless people who like to coin new trendy phrases.

    I am so tired of \"I want to be Depeche Mode or Erasure for the last 25 years.\" I hope I am not the only one. 25 years is a quarter of century and about a 1/3 of human life. If a person spends a 1/3 of his or her life having the same tastes, I don\'t know if that person acquired enough information to have an interesting life or has a problem understanding he or she is no longer a teenager.

    So called artists who never change, why do you call yourself an artist again?

  9. #9

    Agree? Yes No


    I expected both of them to be bad. I actually liked Martin's album, and Dave's was just as bad as I thought it would be.

  10. #10

    Agree? Yes No


    I didn't have high expectations for either of them, given that solo albums are usually hit-and-miss affairs. I don't think it's fair to compare Martin and Dave's efforts side by side either, mainly because they both have taken very different directions creatively.

    Out of the two albums, I suppose I would favour Martin's over Dave's, simply because it was more or less what I expected him to produce, and in that way I feel more "comfortable" with it. The choice of songs are very diverse, and (as was apparent with the first "Counterfeit") the musical production is very similar-sounding to the current Depeche Mode "sound". In fact, after hearing "C2", I did start wondering exactly what, if anything, Mark Bell actually did to the Gore/Jones/Freegard-produced demos for "Exciter"...

    "Paper Monsters" is a bit of an oddity. There's a definite lack of cohesion as a complete product, although the musical production is well done. Like Colin commented at the beginning of this thread, I too was surprised to hear electronics used as prominently as they are on the album. I think the album's main problems stem from Dave's inexperience as a songwriter, both lyrically and musically, as well as its overall uncertain direction. It almost feels like they (by which I mean Dave and the rest of those who were involved in the making of the album) were trying to focus more on a commercial success than an album which flowed and could hold its own lyrically. The album's first two singles, for example, have unsurprisingly been the two most obviously "Depeche"-sounding on the album. I think it's possible that the record company were afraid that Dave might alienate his fan-base if he strayed too far away from what Depeche Mode fans were expecting, especially as they knew he had yet to prove himself as a standalone artist. Rather than come away with an album which would challenge people's perception of Dave Gahan as an individual, we have something that sounds sometimes painfully disjointed and which fails to really deliver on any level.

    So now we come to my personal "ideals" for how I would change these albums if I was ModeMan101 Almighty... With Martin's album, it's difficult because imagining an album of Martin-penned songs is really just imagining a Depeche Mode album with Martin as lead vocalist. True, there would probably be more of an emphasis on the slower, ballad-style songs, but ultimately the lyrical themes and musical ideas would be the same. I think the only thing I would have done with "C2" would be to have chosen a different production team to that which worked on the band's most recent album. I understand that Martin has always had that insecurity in a studio environment, and therefore probably preferred to work with two people who were personal trusted friends, but I think that in turn caused him to rely on them a bit too much.

    As for Dave's album, I would have first convinced him that he would have to, at least for his first solo effort, collaborate with a more experienced songwriter to help lend credibility to the songs. I'm sure that Dave would have been just as happy communicating his ideas to someone who actually had an interest in making something out of them, rather than taking on the responsibility alone. It's been obvious from the press interviews that Dave has been giving to promote the album and tour that he is increasingly unhappy with Martin's disinterest in his creative ideas, and having someone for the solo album who would be appreciative and enthusiastic could most likely have helped Dave concentrate more on his established "talents", and at the same time still retain overall artistic control. As for the musical production of "Paper Monsters", whilst there's nothing truly wrong with it, it's also nothing spectacular and certainly lacks the energy that Dave has always maintained is what drives him - and yes, that even goes for "Bottle Living", in my opinion. After hearing Dave's contribution to Junkie XL's recent CD, I would have loved an album where several different producers and musicians could have worked with Dave, to really show how his voice could be used to carry different types of musical arrangements and styles. It could have been a real showcase of his vocal ability and versatility.

    It is going to be very interesting to see what comes out of the next band meeting, reportedly set for later this year. I have a bad feeling that discussions might not be as fruitful as some of us might hope. But who knows what tomorrow brings, eh?


  11. #11
    Guest test's Avatar

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    Thumbs up

    i love martin's new album, and i really really like dave's, it is different to the dm albums, but i wasn't expecting an imitation, i liked that he did what he wanted and is good


  12. #12
    Associate alejo's Avatar
    February 8th, 2003

    Agree? Yes No


    como te escrachás sola, maika....

    tendrías que tener mas cuidado. la foto de esta turra ya era sospechosa y encima see through plastic....
    hear no evil -monkey 1 says you shouldn\'t hear it-
    see no evil -money 2 says you shouldn\'t see it-
    speak no evil -monkey 3 says you shouldn\'t speak it-

  13. #13

    Agree? Yes No


    Martin's was exactly what I expected. David's surprised me. I thought I might not like it even but was pleasantly surprised! I like David's better actually because it is so different from DM. It has that "David" attitude and his humour is all over it - though you'd have to know his life story to get a lot of it. (which is why many of the lyrics are going over so many people's heads)

    I do like Mart's album though - and surprisingly some of my friends I know who I so would have thought they'd like mart's better, don't! I guess what I was expecting from the solo albums was something DIFFERENT - and I got that best with David.

    No, David may not be the best songwriter in the world right now, but neither was Mart on his first try either.. I am looking forward to the future.

    Keep Moding

  14. #14

    Agree? Yes No


    Well, to me both of them are good average albums. Nothing I would mind listening to... nothing I would go out and buy (okay, maybe except for a possible Loverman single) . Expectationwise none of them was as disappointing as Exciter (which has pretty much made me immune to any future dm disappointments).

  15. #15

    Agree? Yes No


    I got what I expected. I quite like Martins introvert covers and I bloody hate Daves ¤¤¤¤ty attempt at adult oriented stadiumrock.

    So I bought Martins album upon its release although I had it already on mp3 and have listened to it 3-4 times. It's a fine albeit slightly boring album.

    Daves I've never bothered buying and I dont remember actually going through the process of listening to it from one end to another. Its just an awful pile of old crap.

  16. #16
    ElectroGardener NJOberheim's Avatar
    December 3rd, 2001
    West Orange, NJ

    Agree? Yes No


    I was very happy with Martin's release. I expected a lot more guitars in it considering he can't seem to put the damn things down during the latest DM concerts. However, there arent much of them at all. The songs a little mellow but that's fine.

    Dave's I have not bothered to get. I think Dave's CD sounds like all that I dislike of the current DM sound but with no redeeming qualities at all.


  17. #17

    Agree? Yes No


    I expected Gore's stuff to be a little minimal and, well, dull. And, well........

    Judging by his promotional interviews, I expected Mr. Gahan to deliever something that would put DM to shame. Hell, it's not even as good as Exciter. Ouch!
    \"The things you own end up owning you.\"

  18. #18

    Agree? Yes No

    Default by golly i sorta liked 'em both

    Personally, I am really into Dave's album. I thought it was a nice break from his work with DM. I dunno...something about him singing his own songs was refreshing. I felt like I was in a confessional booth with him or something. Only I wasn't dressed like a priest, and Dave wasn't singing to ME exclusively. Ummm...yeah.
    Anyway, I really liked the emotionality that Dave poured forth on his album. For some reason however Marty didn't fare so well with me. I thought his effort was okay. Not great, not bad, but just somewhere in the region of blahhhhhhhhhh.
    But that's just my opinion afterall and what the hell do I know?


  19. #19

    Agree? Yes No


    Both were pretty much what I expected. Martin's album was a down-tempo electro album with some very good versions and some not so good. The overall feel is a bit too boring because all the songs are so slow, and Martin's voice on a full album just doens't work that well. But C2 is clearly the better of the two solo albums.

    From Dave, I expected a boring rock album and that's exactly what it was. I was a bit surprised at the amount of ballads, too. And actually it made it even worse. The best tracks on the album are those bluesy/rock tracks which I can actually listen to. What is the most terrible thing about Paper Monsters is, that there is not one single original idea on the album. Way too mainstream, like it has been said before. And the lyrics? Don't get me started... Not one reason to like the album. But I wasn't disappointed because I knew what to expect. And I haven't bought PM either. Why bother?

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