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Thread: Interesting discussion with De/Vision Management

  1. #1


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    Exclamation Interesting discussion with De/Vision Management


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    cristiana,
    just to let you know you're not alone...I heard many people complaininig about this attitude...also on their forum! It's sad...

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    This kind of relationships is the reason, why I don't support De/Vision anymore. I'm not buying CD, not going on the concert, not recommending to anyone.

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    if you not support de/vision anymore, why you are in this forum ?

    you have a negative relationship to de/vision and the only reason that you are in this forum is showing de/vision in a negative way.

    i just can tell everyone: if you have a question -> ASK http://www.devision.de or http://www.spr-kleefeld.de

    if you have a problem: tell us and we can maybe work it out and try to understand and change something.

    about this topic: the page above show just one side, it didnt show the complete communication.
    (it is also illegal to post e-mails on public websides)

    finaly this page changed nothing on "our side" , because there is still a chance that there will be a release with copyprotection in the future.

    maybe its a mistake that i anwered here, or to the email from that girl, but this shows just that WE are open for communication.

    we cant comment everything all over the world, but maybe this forum is a good platform.

    maybe we should CHAT it out on this page , then everyone can tell me everything and then he should be silent. i also can tell the people "the other side of business", because there are to many misunderstandings around. lorenz

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    basic law is that everyone who buys a CD can make a copy of it for personal use - f.e.you can burn a collection of favourite songs from different CDīs and listen to it. With this stupis copy protection you canīt. I am one of the fans that did not send any email cause it would take much time to exchange the CD or to return money etc.
    Problem is that this copy protection if more often lately not only on DE/VISION CDīs but i got CAMOUFLAGE-Sensor Copy protected too, Dave Gahan is copy protected etc.
    It just sucks. My advice is - sell these protected Cdīs but make them cheaper because itīs HALF-PRODUCT, if i canīt make a copy for my favourite CD itīs not worth it. I donīt want to skip a song i donīt like everytime i play CD, i can programm it but itīs a short play CD this way

  7. #7


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    Lorenz, I think the problem is not just the copyright protection but the unfair way they've answered to her...they've shown a not very customer oriented attitude...

  8. #8


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    if you not support de/vision anymore, why you are in this forum ?

    --- Why not? The forum is not protected from the people who is not supported De/Vision. I'm not supporting Madonna also, but for me it's interesting to read about her

    about this topic: the page above show just one side, it didnt show the complete communication.
    (it is also illegal to post e-mails on public websides)

    --- If found just about this side. If there is another side, show it to us!! And bad things runs faster as good ones.

    finaly this page changed nothing on "our side" , because there is still a chance that there will be a release with copyprotection in the future.

    --- I don't want to change something. Don't want to waste time and energy. I'm against copy protection and I'm not buying CD with it. It's only what I can do as a customer. Latest Camouflage, Dave Gahan, MLGore, Massive Attack CDs are not in my collection. I'm buying CDs not to have problems with it. I can live with it. But bands didn't get money from me. I decreased possible sales on 1

    Kathy is right. Attitude not customer oriented. The line of answers is "we will do what WE want and not what you're expecting from us". From the music point of view it's good, from selling point of view..... not so I think.

  9. #9


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    Personally Im not happy with copy protected discs, but if its what needs to happen to get the industry back on track, then its something I will accept.

    Id rather have a copy protected De/vision disc than no more de/vision discs in the future as they band/label cant finance them.

    From an argument point of view, the record company seem to offered assitance to the DJ in question, who has responded in a very aggressive and overbearing way, to someone whose first language is not english.

    I can see why there is bad feeling, but it looks as though the label wants to balance keeping its customers happy, and a secure financial future, which is not unreasonable in my opinion.


    In another happier world, the conversation may have gone :

    DJ : I cant play this CP disc on my radio show or DJ with it.
    Label : We'll send you a non copy protected replacement, and and Envelope, post the CP version back to us on receipt of the replacement disc.

    Pehaps it is a simple case of differentiating between retail and promotional sales ?
    a330n

    http://www.8inf.com

  10. #10


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    Originally posted by pedropedro
    >basic law

    is different in every country, and will change soon in germany.

    > is that everyone who buys a CD can make a copy of it for personal use - f.e.you can burn a collection of favourite songs from different CDīs and listen to it. With this stupis copy protection you canīt.


    >I am one of the fans that did not send any email cause it would take much time to exchange the CD or to return money etc.

    in germany we offered a special service for people who have problems with copy protection with the german version and so many people where happy about this service.

    in usa the cd was not protected, because we had an special edition for usa.


    >My advice is - sell these protected Cdīs but make them cheaper

    good idea, but the record shops wont care.

    Originally posted by kathy
    Lorenz, I think the problem is not just the copyright protection but the unfair way they've answered to her...they've shown a not very customer oriented attitude...
    so it would be better when i have not answered ?

    that girl was not intrested in my answere and in help.
    she just would like to collect statements that underline her position.

    he e-mail (which is not on her page) was not posted. so you don't know how agressive she was.

    if she would be more friendly then i also would be it.

    In another happier world, the conversation may have gone :

    DJ : I cant play this CP disc on my radio show or DJ with it.
    Label : We'll send you a non copy protected replacement, and and Envelope, post the CP version back to us on receipt of the replacement disc.

    [/b]
    doesnt matter if she is a dj or a 'normal' record buyer.
    we got some emails from germany from people who had problems,
    and i just asked them "can i help you ?"
    and they wondered "you can help me?"
    i said: "yes, that is my job"

  11. #11


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    Geez, they seemed awfully hostile. They could've been a lot more diplomatic. Even if they had no plans to change their policy, the "you're just screwed I guess and we don't need you" attitude really doesn't say good things about them.
    Eric Oehler
    wonko@nulldevice.com
    www.nulldevice.com

  12. #12


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    Originally posted by Nevernever
    if you not support de/vision anymore, why you are in this forum ?

    --- Why not? The forum is not protected from the people who is not supported De/Vision. I'm not supporting Madonna also, but for me it's interesting to read about her


    READ but not write statements that demage the band.



    --- If found just about this side. If there is another side, show it to us!! And bad things runs faster as good ones.

    what should this page contain ?
    fans who lick my feets ?

    >Attitude not customer oriented.

    you can't imagine whats happened during the last 12 month.

    > The line of answers is "we will do what WE want and not what you're expecting from us". From the music point of view it's good, from selling point of view..... not so I think.
    you are absolute right. there is just one thing that you should know: inside de/vision and our company we had a discussion about our releationship to people who are 'not friendly with us'. we decide that we don't care about them anymore
    or that we are also not friendly with them.

    the main thing is RESPECT. we try to understand the record-buying-people (thats why i am at EGN) but obviously the record-buying-people have No interest in the opinion of the band/management/label.

    Originally posted by NullDevice
    ... about them.
    i hope that you mean both sides....
    again, you don't see the full email conversation on her page.

    obviously she dont need us
    and i guess we dont need her - BUT we answered (and many other who use copyprotection didnt done it).

    why does her page stopped ?

  13. #13
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    I'd heard before that De/Vision management were "slightly" arrogant and not the friendliest persons on Earth, so this didn't come exactly as a surprise to me.
    Which De/Vision CD are we talking about by the way ? Last one I bothered to by was "Two" and I can't remember experiencing problems with it.

  14. #14


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    When I bought the "Unplugged" I was furious...
    I wanted to hear the CD in my Discman which is mp3 player & couldn't...
    This is what I did:
    DOWNLOADED (Yes, although I has it) the CD, burned it on a mp3 CD with all De/Vision songs (I own all of their albums) & listens to it that way.

    So... what can we understand from this?
    1. You can download ANYTHING although it's protected (Oh, and I had David Gahan's CD two months B4 it was released & I BOUGHT a "real" CD later).
    2. People who buy "protected" only get #$%& because they can't use it in several CD players (& of course their CD-ROM) but everyone else has it because they have downloaded it.
    3. People like me (Mesh? ) BUY CDs although they can download it from the internet.

    Anat.
    * My brother told me that if you "paint" a line on the CD (that is protected) you can listen to it like a regular CD. I didn't check it.

  15. #15


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    -- Why not? The forum is not protected from the people who is not supported De/Vision. I'm not supporting Madonna also, but for me it's interesting to read about her


    READ but not write statements that demage the band.
    ----------------------------
    Sorry but if the band write THIS kind of statement........ The EMails are from De/Vision management, that means they are from band. If you write:

    i just know now, that i have now
    one more argument against usa.

    I undestand that you are collecting arguments against USA.

    ----------
    Out of subject: To Null Device, you made a really nice EP!!! It's a good introduction of the band for me. Thanks!

  16. #16


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    I show respect to De/Vision by BUYING every release, but the respect I get back is that I can't play "Remixed" in any of my CD-players at home. I will continue to buy the De/Vision CDs though - just because I can't live without them, but every time I will have to hope that I can get some music out of them...

  17. #17


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    Originally posted by lorenz macke
    [b]
    i hope that you mean both sides....
    Well, only kind of. Yes, the emails you guys got were needlessly hostile and unfriendly, but...

    I've had a couple of jobs now where I've had to interact with customers and clients around the world. Many of them are downright abusive to me and my employer over silly things (I got called horrible, horrible things once because a free tshirt didn't come in XXXL - and I was the webmaster, not the guy doing the tshirt giveaway). But I've had it drilled into my head that no matter how rude, arrogant, unpleasant and unfriendly a customer is, you treat them very politely and with a whole lot of humility. They may be completely, and utterly wrong, and complete and utter b*stards, but as long as you want to keep selling products, you grit your teeth and play nice.

    The reason for this is pretty simple - bad reps travel much, much faster than good ones. A jerk can still tell all his or her friends how horrible you are and they'll likely believe them. You won't be able to be there to defend yourself. And this stuff spreads like wildfire.

    You know, I agree with much of your position, and while I personally am not a fan of copyprotection, it's your right to make your own decision about it and stick by it. And I agree that the emails you got sent were hostile and kidn fo petty. Nonetheless, a response of "thank you for your feedback, we will consider your suggestions for future releases, and we're sorry you were unsatisfied with our current release." would've probably defused the whole issue right from the start. Sure, some people are never happy, but stay diplomatic and at least they can't go off and say "those de/vision guys are arseholes that hate their fans."

    (better yet, find a scapegoat: "I'm sorry, we were acting on advice from our lawyer, who doesn't understand american law, only german. " )
    Eric Oehler
    wonko@nulldevice.com
    www.nulldevice.com

  18. #18


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    Originally posted by Paradoxxx
    I'd heard before that De/Vision management were "slightly" arrogant and not the friendliest persons on Earth, so this didn't come exactly as a surprise to me.
    Which De/Vision CD are we talking about by the way ? Last one I bothered to by was "Two" and I can't remember experiencing problems with it.

    arrogant ? maybe why i am always short of time, and answere quick or be proud of that what i have done.

    not friendly ? you are a little bit right. sometimes i am not friendly, especially when people violate my rights and also when people not telling the truth. when i think that people are not friendly then i am also not friendly.

    there is also one point that WE decide concerning communication with fans and media things that i cant explain in english.
    it is our decision to talk or answere people and the way we are doint it.
    open for communication is always a risk, but we do this because we know that we can make many people happy when they got an anwere.

  19. #19
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
    Joined
    March 11th, 2002
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    45
    Posts
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    Originally posted by NullDevice
    (better yet, find a scapegoat: "I'm sorry, we were acting on advice from our lawyer, who doesn't understand american law, only german. " )
    Uuuhhh...You're sneaky and dangerous!

  20. #20


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    >Sorry but if the band write THIS kind of statement........ The EMails are from De/Vision management, that means they are from band. If you write: i just know now, that i have now one more argument against usa.

    please read carefully: I (not WE).
    this statement is from me, and futher on: the usa law is not a good platform for releasing cd's.

    Originally posted by NullDevice
    [b]

    Nonetheless, a response of "thank you for your feedback, we will consider your suggestions for future releases, and we're sorry you were unsatisfied with our current release." would've probably defused the whole issue right from the start. b>
    of course i counld have COPIES this standard words, but i would like to give an individual answere and also i guess the expect a detailed answere too.

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