Bizarre Love Triangle on EGN charts

**Styk** · February 21st, 2003, 01:13 AM

I'm with POP on this one too...rotation, rotation, rotation.

Styk

**Brand New Idol** · February 21st, 2003, 01:50 AM

Rule of thumb on covers, if you're making money on a cover the person who originally wrote the song needs to get paid, and believe me Harry Fox will be all over your ass with a fine tooth comb if you made one penny off of the cover version. But you aren't entitled to do any more than credit the band that originally wrote the song when money isn't being exchanged from the recording.

Personally, I would have ��ed with that cover instead of making a karaoke version out of the original. Something is always endearing about listening to covers especially when you hear one and immediately recognize who the band is who's covering the song.

**intro** · February 21st, 2003, 01:55 AM

I assure you the E:Moderne version of Bizarre Love Triangle is perfectly legal.

-Mark knows
www.djintrovert.com

**pop** · February 21st, 2003, 02:45 AM

Innocent until proven guilty.

your message in the bottle is too short.

**skylla** · February 21st, 2003, 04:27 AM

on that rotation point... isn't this kinda what is done with "the underground track"? how about expanding on that and reducing the entries on the main chart. then we could have a regular egn top10 chart based on the number of listens and an underground trackS section with a number of songs based on rotation.

**pop** · February 21st, 2003, 06:26 AM

i really don't care anymore.... long as top 40 says Princess and Prince of EGN as heading, i will cool ... i will just stop clicking on them... i will go back finding new artists old ways, which is randomly search through mp3.com i hope egn doesn't start PAYPOLA like mp3.com on the top 40 charts. Buy your number#1 like mp3.com.

**gordonctrl** · February 21st, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by intro
I assure you the E:Moderne version of Bizarre Love Triangle is perfectly legal.

-Mark knows
www.djintrovert.com

good.
as a N.O. fan l like to hear those kinds of things.

Brad

**arronc** · February 21st, 2003, 03:12 PM

"Rule of thumb on covers, if you're making money on a cover the person who originally wrote the song needs to get paid, and believe me Harry Fox will be all over your ass with a fine tooth comb if you made one penny off of the cover version. But you aren't entitled to do any more than credit the band that originally wrote the song when money isn't being exchanged from the recording."

This isnt true in the UK. You do not have the right to distribute or reproduce the published or copyrighted material in the work.

Is it different in the US ?

**Eyuva** · February 21st, 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by labrat
Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible remake of a classic? It's got to be the worst thing I've played here at EGN, but it's now in the top 10.

agreed, that is a terrible version. I dont know what's worse the bassline, production or vocals, but all are terrible.

**Brand New Idol** · February 21st, 2003, 04:18 PM

"This isnt true in the UK. You do not have the right to distribute or reproduce the published or copyrighted material in the work. "

Different countries, different governments, different laws.

Depends if you are trying to make money from it or not, if you are, then mechanical royalties(Physical Product Royalties/Unit) are going to need to be paid. Songs under 6 minutes are around 9 cents a song. And individual needs to pay if they are pressing a CD, LP and for individuals this rate applies for a minimum of 500 units to a maximum of 2500 units, anything over that and different rules apply. Typically this charge applies to the original sound recordings. Remember this covers only unit pressings over 500 units and under 2500 units.

If you are just paying homage to a band and not officially pressing "units/tangibly feel it see it product" credit where credit is due should suffice, it's very hard to track digital units as we all know. A cover is not ripping off another band, it's paying homage, and every band and their brother has covered a song at one time.

I would not even try to open that pandora's box, so think before you start crying foul over someones cover. Your cover might just be as easily targeted.

**arronc** · February 21st, 2003, 05:01 PM

"I would not even try to open that pandora's box, so think before you start crying foul over someones cover. Your cover might just be as easily targeted."

Sorry, i certainly didnt mean to cause offence to anyone, and was just really making idle conversation

When it comes to discussing whether people should burn or buy product, there is always a good debate, and i didnt mean to get anyones back up.

I myself have covered songs, but am also aware that in the UK it would be a publishing infringment to reproduce the material without publishing consent. (In the UK, if you want to put something previously published on a site you need a New Media licence, not a production liscence that you descibe above). Technically the same thing goes for Midi Files.

But ultamately, I dont think it really does a lot of harm to anyone, as the only money in the transaction will be the cost to the band of recording the material, and the cost of the site to give away the bandwidth for free.

If New Order go round wanting to claim their share of the negative value transactions, they be bankrupt in no time

Alternatively they could open Hacienda II. LOL

Stay well,

Arron

**NullDevice** · February 21st, 2003, 05:05 PM

Regardless of whether an artist has a remix contest, before you can release anything you need clearance. Unless there's a stated agreement that "you can release your remix of our song", it remains property of the original band.

With covers, in the US, it's $35 for 500 CDs, and there's another form for internet release. This is through HFA, as pop mentioned. I *think* Harry Fox has a european office that handles that sort of thing for UK, Germany, etc. - that requires more checking into.

Remixes are sticky. Because regardless of how you remix it, it's still the original artists song, and thus doesn't qualify as a cover. It's subject to different laws. I'm guessing it's a lot more expensive to release your remix of someone else's song than it is to just cover it.

It's pretty easy to get the clearance on a cover. We paid our $70, filled out a form, and voila, we're cleared for 1000 copies of "There is a Light." That's called a mechanical license. There's a "synchronization" license for use in video, live stage, etc. And there's a whle separate kettle of fish for live performance of a song - BMI has a whole publication on that.

----

As for the charts...well, I like the rotation idea as well, but I also like popularity. On a genre site such as this, popularity sometimes can be used as a gauge for quality. But if we go with raw popularity, then classics like "Annie Would I Lie to You" will remain #1 until the end of time - and that realy doesn't expose anyone to anything new.

PArt of the problem could be this - only the top 9 can be played directly from the front page. To play #10-40 you have to go through the effort of looking up the artist and finding the right track. Not a big deal, but much more inconvenient than just clicking "play." If the charts do have a popularity component, the accesibility of what's already in the top10 will skew the ratings...

**Daft Monk** · February 21st, 2003, 05:25 PM

I thought "Annie Would I Lie To You" had been #1 since the beginning of time. However, I have great faith that the "BLT" cover will overtake it soon, and give e:moderne bragging rights over his conquering of the EGN charts. The billboard hot 100 is next!

**pop** · February 21st, 2003, 06:21 PM

LOL..... aCTually, I prefer them to be #1 like Fischerspooner....
wOW... our charts move slower than billboard top 100.
I like Iris, but come on. That song is around five or six years old?
Maybe, I can call Flock of Seagulls to join EGN. I still have their number somewhere. Their 80s songs can be #1 in EGN. We can call ourselves, we are the 80s chart. We can move from miniMTV
to miniVH1.

If Admin is listening, please consider our suggestions.
I will be happy with having TOP40 and rotation chart that are easy to navigate. I don't want this site to look stale.
Permanetly, having Iris and Prince and Princess of EGN on charts make it look like local High School music scene.
I am not speaking out of my own benefit. I am not even
EGN artists.
I believe EGN has lot to offer if existing members don't get bored. If you are trying to break even with the cost of running this place by having priorities to certain bands, I can
understand your motives. I also suggest start offering cheaper
banner advertisement and maybe have 5 or 6 ads per page?
I don't think three isn't enough. We are in recession. Think
business. Low cost. More Volume. If banner costs are cheap enough, I will post a picture of my cat up there to help out.

**cliffwalk** · February 21st, 2003, 07:40 PM

just going to chime in my 2 cents:

.01 - don't really care for e:moderne's style.. and i could go the rest of my life without ever hearing any version of that song..

.02 - aging should be part of the equation, if a song is more than 12 months old it should stop being charted in the top 40. get the best of the newest in the top 40. people will seek out the best of the old.

dave

**pop** · February 22nd, 2003, 02:45 AM

Admin was listening. He changed it.

Who was that secret mask man?
Was it ALone Ranger or EGN admin?

**chriswdc** · February 22nd, 2003, 05:15 AM

I am guessing this is the most buzz e:moderne has ever received.

**labrat** · February 22nd, 2003, 05:22 PM

LOL....yes, I can't believe this thread's gotten this much attention. I ought to start another one to plug Scribe Machine since they were almost ready to trash me at one point, but that's another story.

**David Vesel** · February 22nd, 2003, 08:32 PM

In defense of E:Moderne, I've heard some music from that artist last year on Ampcast, "One Night Stand" and "Wonderlust", and while the music does little for me, it's not bad either. Listening to it now (up up up the chart!) the music is okay, not special but I've heard worse. Vocals too far up in the mix and out of tune in places. With reworked vocals and a bit more punch to the bass drum this would actually not be too bad a cover.

But then what do I know....the self-appointed arbiters of What Matters probably consider my opinion irrelevant.

Originally posted by pop
To Admin!!
Don't change it that way.. Please....
Why don't you just rotate songs instead of having top 20? Charts are going to be based on who has most friends in electrogarden.com. That is even worse. There will be more ass kissing than it needs here... Don't be a papa smurf. Also, getting private IM about click my song for me to get to the top. This site has more political bull shi* than Pentagon. I think rotation will make people want to click on the listed songs on the main page.
Please consider my idea.
thanks[/b]

I second that. I benefited from that chart arrangement when I came here, and I think it's appropriate. I probably wouldn't have gotten 1/50th the listens otherwise.

I think we all want a chance to be found and heard by listeners, even if the listener's reaction is "Ick."

Originally posted by skylla
on that rotation point... isn't this kinda what is done with "the underground track"? how about expanding on that and reducing the entries on the main chart. then we could have a regular egn top10 chart based on the number of listens and an underground trackS section with a number of songs based on rotation.

And put it BACK up on top before the chart where it was before, not moved down under the chart where no one is likely to see it.