most underestimated synths

[Frozendiego]

What are, in your opinion, the all time most underestimated synths (and samplers) ?

[NullDevice]

E-mu Morpheus - Lovely beast that got overshadowed by all the rest of the little boxes they made. Responsible for a lot of Haujobb's sound too. I want about three of them. Woo, z-plane filters.

Korg MS2000 - everybody's buying Nords and Viruses, but as far as virtual analogs go, I love the 2000. Mmm.

I could think of others but my brain is not working right now.

[-§DjRobbie§-]

WELCOME DIEGO

[Frozendiego]

hi Nulldevice, the most understimated (and my favourites ) synths are:

for the analog section:the Italian Elka Synthex !!! A fat warm fantastic sound and an incredible and versatile sequencer

for the virtual analog section: yamaha An1x, this synth is cheap now, apart from the knobs on the panel is very similar to some other analog modeling synths, few days ago I try a Virus Indigo, this machine has many controls onboard but it sounds very similar to An1x ( I heard the preset sounds only ) and is more expensive!

for the digital section: Kawai K4, this is another beast for my taste, great pad sounds, hearbreaking double digital filter, 4 oscillators for each voice with delayable starting ( PPG wave cascade similar effects )!

Elka EK44: is called the italian DX 7 for its FM synthesis, but I think is more warm and programmable, split, multitimbral features.
very hot timbres.

[JoyHouse]

I don't know about under-rated but certainly not respected in the Detroit-Techno world....the ROland XP50. 16 track sequencer, sliders to twirl the analog sounds, and plenty of dance sounds like the 808 and 909 kits. You can edit the patches all day long.

And it's only like $700 used.

[AriannaStatique]

Elka Synthex! Elka Synthex! Elka Synthex! Proudly Italian.
Can't do without it.

[synth19]

yeah! the xp50 is awesome and a great workstation...but there are some things I dont like on it (one effect per performance, and cant save your changes with the sliders). But it's one hell of a versitile synth,a nd for $700, you CANT lose!

Originally posted by JoyHouse
I don't know about under-rated but certainly not respected in the Detroit-Techno world....the ROland XP50. 16 track sequencer, sliders to twirl the analog sounds, and plenty of dance sounds like the 808 and 909 kits. You can edit the patches all day long.

And it's only like $700 used.

[Frozendiego]

Hi, talking about oldies ( no effects, no multitimbral, ecc ): Akai AX 80 is another beast in my opinion; great modulation possibilities , good keyboard action, 2 oscillators + a sub oscillator per voice (8 voices polyphony) , it sounds quite similar to jupiters or chroma polaris.
There are no sliders or knobs on the panel, BUT YOU HAVE 5 PHISICAL NEON DISPLAYS to look at!!!, and every parameter is shown under these displays, you can adjust the values with the calssical data entry knob.........sound is analog, fat but precise and linear , great string sound very expressive for an analog, you are helped by the dynamic touch sense keyboard.
It's very rare here in Italy.

[pop]

Try Sq-80 or Esq-1. It's cheap and has most unsual analogish sounds....

[AriannaStatique]

They’re Ensoniq, aren’t they? Nothing against Ensoniq synthesizers, but I think their samplers are far better than their synthesis gear. Ensoniq samplers are very reliable and very well conceived. Perhaps the most powerful Ensoniq synth I’ve tried so far is Fizmo (using transient waves, I believe), but it’s not one of the most underestimated synth ever. Well, this is my opinion.

[Midihead]

Originally posted by Frozendiego
hi Nulldevice, the most understimated (and my favourites ) synths are:

yamaha An1x, this synth is cheap now, apart from the knobs on the panel is very similar to some other analog modeling synths, few days ago I try a Virus Indigo, this machine has many controls onboard but it sounds very similar to An1x ( I heard the preset sounds only ) and is more expensive!

I own a Virus KB (same sound engine as the Indego) and have played with the Yamaha AN1X on a several occasions. I don't think there is a comparison. As far as virual analog synths go, the Virus blows away pretty much everything out there when it comes to sounding analog. The AN1X is a good synth, and granted for the price it cannot be beat. I see more people buying Novation, Korg, and Nord keyboards than the Virus. Hell, I just purchased mine 3 weeks ago and it was number 1,420. Meaning that not very many people have this synth.

[NullDevice]

Viruses do sound niiiice.

You may have 1420 of the KB edition - but from what I've heard the rack unit is selling like gangbusters.

I wish so many bands would stop using the virus presets, though. The thing's capable of a lot - I don't need to hear the detuned lead synth patch in so many songs...sigh.

[Synthpopalooza]

Ok, so I am on a low budget here ...

KORG POLY-800 II ... this is a classic 80's analog synth with a digital interface. You can get some really nice ambient sounds or some good fat analog sounding basses off of this one. Gary Flanagan uses something similar in a lot of his music (a Poly 800) but the mark II also has onboard effects.

YAMAHA DX-100 ... very economical, and can get you some really grungy or metallic sounds if you like. It's a great bass machine too. I've even been able to emulate some of the old analog drum machines on it too.

[Frozendiego]

Originally posted by Midihead


I own a Virus KB (same sound engine as the Indego) and have played with the Yamaha AN1X on a several occasions. I don't think there is a comparison. As far as virual analog synths go, the Virus blows away pretty much everything out there when it comes to sounding analog. The AN1X is a good synth, and granted for the price it cannot be beat. I see more people buying Novation, Korg, and Nord keyboards than the Virus. Hell, I just purchased mine 3 weeks ago and it was number 1,420. Meaning that not very many people have this synth.

Hi Midihead, i'm sure you have reason, as i wrote before, i've just heard the preset sounds of the Indigo, and i said: listen...this is pratically the same preset sound of my yamaha An1x ( or very similar) but i know that the differences are a lot....I just try to say that if someone is searching for a good virtual analog sound at a cheap price th AN1x could be a very good bargain...
I think that the biggest differences on the Indigo/virus are the very good control panel with all that knobs which every "analog-feel-fan" are happy to "turn on", the multi timbral capabilities, that are always a blessing, and the possibility to choose also different waves, not only the classical SAW, SQUARE/ PWM, SINUSOID...these features are not present in Yamaha AN1X and I think that not so many people knows these possibilities of virus, probably this is the reason why Virus And indigo are not so Popular, the price of the Keyboard version is not so friendly but the new Virus Rack version is Cheaper, near to Waldorf Micro Q Rack.

[pop]

>>>>They’re Ensoniq, aren’t they? Nothing against Ensoniq synthesizers, but I think their samplers are far better than their synthesis gear. Ensoniq samplers are very reliable and very well conceived. Perhaps the most powerful Ensoniq synth I’ve tried so far is Fizmo (using transient waves, I believe), but it’s not one of the most underestimated synth ever. <<<<

Samplers never become classic. Structures of samplers are mostly
same. One period my time, I had over 6 samplers. Now, I use computer for sampling. It's most amazing process. I had EPS-16+. I hated it. I prefer AKAI. You can't go wrong with AKAI samplers. Anyway, SQ-80/ESQ-1 has been used by Skinny Puppy, FLA, KMFDM, and all the other various 80s hard electronic bands. For current street price of $300, you can't go wrong. I used to have two, because I needed more voices.
Fizmo is nice, but technology is not new. Concept was stolen
from L.A. (D-50) using very short waves to chain and rechaing waves and filters. FIZMo never took off, because it was weird
and not functional. FIZMO might be nice for industrial band.

If new user have money, person can't go wrong with Virus.
Problem is Virus is overpriced, but it's a work horse.
An1x is nice but it's not mutlitim. I have one, and it's better
than Virus for LUSH, PAD, and weird sounds. AN1X is more gear toward movie soundtrack sounds. It's great for people who are into ambient sounds. It has great morphing technology. Virus has better bass, arp, dance sounds, and analog sounds. If you are doing synthpop and looking for all in one synth, VIRUS OR Q.
If you want to sound different, you have to try
something different than rest of flocks are using. Half of the synth
sounds from Black Celebration (DM) were TX802, minimoog, and ARP 2600.

[AriannaStatique]

[ "... you have reason..."] Originally posted by Frozendiego



it's the litteral translation of the Italian "hai ragione" = "you're right".
Diego, hai ragione.
Ok, after the unrequested Italian lesson n°1, let's talk about synths again.
Not to be too obsessive, but has any of you put their fingers on a Synthex?...speaking about real rare beasts!!!!
Synthetic greetings to all of you, dear synth maniacs!

[AriannaStatique]

To Pop:
I didn't mean Fizmo contains any innovation, i just think it's the nicest Ensoniq synth. We've got 2 EPS 16+ and we adore them. Well, it depends on tastes and on methods of working. Samplers never become classics because the structure is basically always the same? Cannot deny it, but you don't know how much I cried when I had to give away my Emulator III sampling keyboard, and I hadn't to wait much for someone who wanted to buy it, even though nobody had been able to repair it. Yet, Ensoniq EPS 16 + has that lovely "synthesized loop" option...again personal tastes.
I love Skinny Puppy! But I don't think they were only using the Ensoniq synths, am I wrong?
Anyway, in which way do you think SQ-80/ESQ-1 contain any innovation? From a certain point of view, between analog and the true physical modeling (of which virtual analog is only one among its thousands applications) there are only (so to say!) variegated versions of mathematical modeling and hybrids (lovely hybrids).
This discussion is becoming more and more interesting...wow.

[Frozendiego]

Originally posted by AriannaStatique
[ "... you have reason..."] Originally posted by Frozendiego



it's the litteral translation of the Italian "hai ragione" = "you're right".
Diego, hai ragione.
Ok, after the unrequested Italian lesson n°1, let's talk about synths again.
Not to be too obsessive, but has any of you put their fingers on a Synthex?...speaking about real rare beasts!!!!
Synthetic greetings to all of you, dear synth maniacs!

Many samplers (like the powerfull and intuitive Ensoniq EPS 16 plus!!) are understimated, but there are other two incredible machines that are "living in the dark" expecially for their little memory:

1) s.c.i. Prophet 2000: this strange (and now cheap) sampler is just a 12 bit resolution and is impossible to compare it with the newies, but i like to use it as a very particular SYNTHESIZER, this machine has a POWERFULL CURTIS ANALOG FILTER !!!! I use to sample single cycles of pure unfiltered waves, so loop is perfect, no crossfades needed, after i can filter, amplify, modulate this waves as on a classical analog synth, you can create a sort of wavetable on each diskette with this method. This is the best sounding filter i've heard ( for my taste is very moogish )also compared to some modern synths!
This sampler has also a good arpeggiator and a powerfull unison mode with note repeating, strange features in a sampler from 1985!!

2) korg DSS1: same as above but with more implemented wavemanipulations as wave-drawing like in additive synthesis approach, wave modulations for sync and a fantastic hearbreaking unison mode, remember, it's a a sampler.
Sampling editing is very difficult and the entire system configuration is not easy to understand, but this "SYNTH" has a great sound

[pop]

<>

They had tons of gears. Mostly, various cheap recording gears.
They didn't use straight forward sequencing techniques other various bands in the same era did.
Strings in Warlock and bells in Testure is factory
ESQ-M 40 program presets.
You can hear lot of preset sounds
in Mind****.

<>

I like hybrids. Sounds are roms and filters are rich.
It's not a computer like VA. It sounds little different than others.
That's why I like it. It doesn't sound great. It sounds different & easy to use. Also, I had same SQ-80 for over 13 years. Still rock solid... Only had to change internal battery for once.

Concept of most subtractive synthesis are very similar.
When person is picking a VA, check the filters and fx.
That's the what makes each one sounds different.

[Frozendiego]

Hi, in the Skinny Puppy song SOLVENT from REMISSION, there is a very particular sequence in the background, I think that is played by using a Korg MONO/POLY synced to the other equipment,
this is another rare and fabolous synth obscured by the big brother POLYSIX, at the time of the recordings circa 1984 was a cheap synth, it was no midi and it has just 4 voices poliphony, perhaps Skinny puppy used this synth to produce that sequence. Now MONO/POLY is one of my favourite synths, it' difficult to find here in Italy...

HYbrids:I have a PPG WAVE 2.2, this is a very powerfull hybrid, one of the first to be called hybrid.. souds are great and very particular,wave-cascade, resonant 24 db filter, Idiosyncratic automated sequencer ( wow 1000 notes memory in 1982 )arpeggiator, split and layer possibilities ...forget the VST plug in PPG 2.V and the Waldorf Microwave! Good synths but, the original PPG WAVE 2.2 has a 8 bit resolution and you can hear it ! Wonderful crunchy sound, a lo-fi masterpiece!
This synth is completely different from the others, when you touch the keyboard you have the sensation to touch a prototype, as I read in a book only 300 PPG WAVE 2.2 were ever made in 1982 in Germany, so...I'm lucky !

Depeche Mode album's "Some great rewards" is full of PPG WAVE sounds, I think that there were 3 or 4 PPGs at the Garden and Hansa studio's at the time, plus other 30 or 40 other synths ( thank you Vincent Klarke and Gareth Jones ).
Also "Construction time again" is full of PPG WAVE sounds, in an old interview Depece Mode talked also about a Synclvier, but this System is still not cheap