most underestimated synths

[CBLifeform]

Some odd and good, underestimated synths would be the Casio CZ101 or CZ synth series and the Kawai SX-20.

The CZ101 uses phase distortion synthesis, which in my opinion is pretty wack sounding, and for that fact I dig on it. Great for IDM and harsh sounding industrial. This little guy also includes portamento and ring modulation + portable (I use it for live gigs). Oh and lest we forget the patented Casio 'tink tink' sound.

The Kawai SX-20 is also another strange animal. It has very smooth sounding oscilators and sweeps nicely, however it is a pain to work with + no midi or analog sync....strictly a play live synthesizer that can make some other worldly sounds. I don't see much of these ol beasts lying around, but hey they are worth playing with.

[Frozendiego]

Hi,CBlifeform, many times ago I owned a KAWAI SX240 ( I THINK YOU HAVE AN SX210 ), it is a very good synth in my opinion, it was a pain for me to give it away, the differences in SX240 are important:
I try to remember:

2 oscillators+a sub oscillator per voice,
split and double possibilities
MIDI
Sequencer 1500 notes
sequencer clock input trig
and a very strange " program advance" effect that lets you recall
the memories without stop the sound, so you can obtain a changing sound under your fingers, a "pre-wavestation effect"

the same feature is present on the italian ELKA SYNTHEX that I love.

SX 240 has a very linear sound, great clean strings, similar to AKAI AX 80 and some very good synth basses, a warm machine also for the ensemble effect that was present if i remember well.


I'm curious about the Phase distortion synthesis, i've heard a CASIO CZ 5000 sometimes ago and was great !
Great also "Sleep with the fishes", one of my favourites ever, naturally also Clan Of Xymox.

[CBLifeform]

heheh, yes sorry about that. It was the Kawai sx-210.. I meant to say - it was the cough syrup talking Yeah, it is really nice sounding (a real odd synth though).

Hey Frozendiego - great taste in music

[Frozendiego]

THANK YOU !
I listen to 4AD groups since 1985 and also our group ( the Frozen Autumn ) is very 4ad/ Clan of Xymox oriented.. www.frozenautumn.com But if you wait some days soon some MP3 will appear also on Electrogarden site.

[-§DjRobbie§-]

I prefere u that Clan Of Xymox.. but i must listen their better..

[arronc]

This is still a firm favorite for a few reasons :

1) It sounds great and unique. It has subtly about it whatsoever.
Fantastic anolgue filters which can be modified by adding your own capacitors.

2) Every single sounds different due to manufacturing tolerances and multiple revisions.

3) You can control it from inside software written in 6502 assembler, which is suits me !

4) You can mount 4 of them on a card and run them from cubase if assembler is not your cup of tea. (http://www.hardsid.com)
PS Dont buy a sidstation : It has few of the above advantages !

[Frozendiego]

Hi, i've an Amiga 600, i like that crunchy little sounds,and some very good videosynthesyzer like effects; is the Sid chip present also in the Amigas?
I've heard a sidstation demo but i dont like so much, is too imperfect and noisy for my taste...anyway these peculiarity could be the interesting point of this machine.
I know that some Commodore chips where used into the Ensoniq Mirage sound architecture, an amazing machine for that times!

[pop]

Since we are discussing alternative hardware synths,
I love current software synths. Every year, software
is getting better, computer is getting faster, and
software is so much cheaper than hardware.
I love current sampling technology. It's so easy to make
weird sounds out of various new and old computer and old
non midi synths. Editing features in software samplers are amazing and easy.

[Frozendiego]

Native instruments Pro 52 is great and also Model E sounds very good!
Comparing to the old:One of the strangest machines of the past was the SOUNDCHASER a dedicated synthesis hardware system for the Apple II, this system was an entirely analogue based soundcard/hardware and all the parameters were edited through the computer, another strange machine was the ALPHA SYNTHAURY, this system use a basical additive synthesis technique and the editing mode was always made through computer,i think that these systems are the Fathers of the modern DSP based applications...they have many fashion to me, these are rare machines, with particular features inside.

[spektron]

Finally, someone else who appreciates the SYNTHEX!!! There is such an incredible range of tones you can get out of this synth. The sync sound is incredible, though I wish there was external CV input of the oscillator 2 frequency. Has anyone tried this mod, or have any pointers???

Also, with an incredible (but very different, complementary) sound is Studioelectronics Omega 8. Also it is a new synth so they keep coming up with improvments. Like you can now have an arbitrary multitimbral assignment. Perhaps these two are the best polysynths of all time, though I have not played the CS-80. I suppose from what I've heard the CS-80 would rank very high but it seems like quite a chore to maintain.

As for the Virus it doesn't sound that good and is totally
overused in this music!! THe lack of high frequency response
is always annoying. you can tell I prefer real analog, but
I also Reaktor for the occasional use of VA, because you can
go completely to the other extreme of digital harshness.

[Frozendiego]

Dear Synthex user, congratulations for your choice. Arianna Statique & I have 2 non-midi Synthex, and we use them massively. We love their sound so much! As for the CV capabilities, the only parameter that you can drive externally is filter frequency, in order to do that we use an analog sequencer (Korg SQ-10) that can generate the right voltages. But you probably already know how to do this.
Have you already registered in the Howie Shen's Synthex dedicated site? What's the serial number of your Synthex? Ours are: 836 and 1121.
Since you live in the U.S. we guess you paid your Synthex a lot...
Synthex is quite reliable; anyway, should any problem occur with it, feel free to contact us before giving any money to a technician. We're close friends of Synthex' designer Mario Maggi, so we can give free assistance via e-mail if the problem isn't that serious (for instance osc calibration). If it's serious we can talk directly to Mario and ask him, so that you can be sure that your local technician follows the right repairing procedure. Thus if you know some Synthex owner with problems, make them contact us at frozen-autumn@libero.it.
Just out of curiosity: Mario is working on a new amazing synthesizer since two years ago.
As for the Omega 8, we've only read about it. We know it is very expensive, but when you spend your money on good synths, then you're always making good business.
We have tried the CS-80, its sound is fat, it seems like you're playing 8 monophonics at the same time.
It's all for the moment.

[spektron]

hi,

my S/N is nowhere to be found! unless I have to open up the machine and look somewhere in the circuit boards. I don't have an original manual, only a photocopy. to give you an idea of the era, it has the "computer interface" plus an external midi box which plugs into the interface. So it is not as old as those without midi, but older than those with a built-in interface.

I use the filter CV all the time, either with Expressionist or Roland MC-4, sometimes using audio signals. Someday I would like to do a custom modification where Osc#2 frequency has the same control, also switchable between lower and upper parts. I wonder if any other user has attempted this modification or ANY other mods. There is enough space on the back panel for a few more jacks, without destroying the "SYNTHEX" lettering.

As for the cost it is quite expensive to find one with midi, but not more so than Prophet 5, Jupiter 8 and many "lesser" synths, not to mention Matrix 12, 4-voice and others which go for twice as much, and still don't interest me. The only problem is you can wait a year before finding a Synthex in good condition, with midi, at an acceptable price. Synthex has a much darker sound, much more appropriate for industrial/darkwave which are my main interests. I use mainly for three extremes: lush string/orchestral sounds; slicing, metallic bandpass leads and hard-sync basses. What impresses me most is the incredible range of sounds that can be gotten.

The Omega 8 was a lucky find (ebay). I like to support the designers, but there was no way I could have afforded one at the full price, and things must be even worse ordering from Europe with all the fees they add on. Probably the cheapest place in the US to find one new is the Drum Machine museum www.drummachine.com. You can also order a five-voice version, adding voice cards later. and if you like to use each voice as an independent monosynth, five voices is more than enough. I believe these can be found at www.novamusik.com, also four and six voice versions available directly from SE.
Anyway, my story is after seven months of checking I finally located one in the range of a new Sunsyn/Andromeda. All I can recommend is to check persistently at ebay, harmony central, and some mailing lists... NEVER GIVE UP!!!

PS I am familiar with and love your work, especially the Static Movement CD, and the more "electronic" tracks on Fragments of Memories, such as "the echoes of my lies" and "forgotten frontiers:, where you can just lose yourself forever in the sounds... Sadly your first album is impossible to find. Some of the more guitar-laden material reminds me a little too much of Clan of Xymox though, also with the dated percussion. Anyway I'm glad the projects are continuing and look forward to the new material! I'm curious whether you have some deep connections with the rest of the Italian electronic scene.. it is little known here, but some artists like Kirlian Camera (probably my favorite) and Limbo interest me also very much. That's all for now, anyway thanks for replying

[AriannaStatique]

Thanks for your message and for liking our music. As for The Frozen Autumn first album, it was repressed by Eibon Records in 2000 with the title of "The Pale Collection", and it's still available. I think you may find it also in ADD catalogue. It's strange you cannot find any S/N, our Synthexes have them on their rear panels (am I wrong, Diego?). Anyway, there're no many Synthexes around...perhaps no more than 2000-2500 machines were made (including the MIDI equipped ones), only the people that worked in the Elka industry at that time may know the exact amount. Neither Mario knows it, and he's its "father", as Diego told. That means that there're more Prophet-5 around.
Just to come back to our music, our next album will contain only electronic sounds (=no guitars) as with Static Movement, since Diego & I are both keyboard players. I've read on your profile that you're an artist too, but I couldn't find any URL of yours. What group are you in?
Last but not least, you cannot imagine how glad Diego & I are to talk about Synthex with a far away unknown foreigner.
Ciao,
(lascio la parola a te, Diego)

[Frozendiego]

(ed io riprendo subito la linea).......We love Synthex also for the incredibly powerful sequencer options, is like a programmable arpeggiator but similar to a 4 tracks monophonic phrase sequencer with real time transposition, add the ability to drive two different sounds from each sequence line and you have a monster of organic rythmic textures sequencer !
It's incredible that no other old machines has this sequencer features that is very near to the ANALOG CONCEPT of the sequencers.
I think that only one recent machine has a similar poly sequencer transposition feature:
Quasimidi Polymorph, but i've never listen to it...
Also in modern V A Synths like Yamaha AN1x there are some sequencer options but only one monophonic line, not 4 like in Synthex, and Synthex was made in 1982-83 !
Have a Good time with your Synthex!

[spektron]

My favorite feature with the sequencer is that you can sequence loops of different lengths and play them against one another. This helps you build textures which evolve continuously in sometimes unpredictable ways, but always interesting ways. I do this a lot with layered sounds, not so much putting melodies of different lengths against one another, but focus on changes in timbre.

Not even the MC-4 (which is my favorite standalone analog sequencer) allows for loops of different length. All parts are forced to be the same length, and you have to manually copy and repeat the shorter sequence. Maybe the MC-8 allows for different lengths? In my limited knowledge, the Synthex sequencer is the only one.

Re: Mario Maggi new project: Is he doing design work for some company, or is he founding a new company? I would love to receive updates! I hope at some point he has time to put up a website.

Re: S/N issue, I found four tiny screwholes on the back panel (near the power switch and fuse...) suppose that's where the plaque used to be? I will try to find out from the previous owner. It's only been 10 months for me...

Re: P5: there are billions around but they are still expensive, and many show up with so many problems. much better to be patient and get a Synthex!

RE: URL I'm working on some things, but I am not happy doing only instrumental tracks, as my voice is not adequate except for more aggressive music, and I'm moving away from this direction, I hope to find a female vocalist in the area, maybe some who can add some acoustic qualities (especially flute). I like to contrast some acoustics with very cold electronics. What are my deepest influences... Joy Division, Ultravox, Section 25, Swans, Kirlian Camera, also roots from the 1970s (Jarre, Klaus Schulze, Conrad Schnitzler, Michael Hoenig, Ashra Tempel, Sand) more "cold" than "dark" sound if this makes any sense. Again, I deeply appreciate your work and still others from Italy such as Runes Order, T.A.C, Ordo Equitum Solis. it seems that your scene is very unknown here, but everyone strives for an original direction. That has my utmost respect. Anyway my goal is by the end of this year. I'll post when the time comes! This site seems very active with musicians, also www.darksonus.com is a great site.

All the best -- Spektron

[AriannaStatique]

I'm astonished by the great deal of electro Italian groups you know... We're friends of Claudio Dondo of Runes Order, Diego also did a collaboration with him, singing on 2 of his tracks in the RO album "Waiting Forever".
As for the other groups we just had a brief fax exchange with Angelo Bergamini of Kirlian Camera (well, Diego met him once too) in the Static Movement era, when both KC and SM were distributed in Germany by Novatekk (simply a nightmare), asking for an advice related to this matter. He's very kind, indeed.
Also, I think Diego talked with Gianluca Becuzzi of Limbo once or twice on the telephone, about a recording studio. Nothing more than that. These are our "interesting" relationships with the Italian electro-bands. We are close friends of some Italian bands belonging to our label Eibon Records, though: Canaan, Colloquio...
Diego will answer to the other topics...vero, tesoro?
It's good chatting with you, Spektron. All the best for your musical career.

[Frozendiego]

I think that MC-8 had only more tracks, more note memory and more cv-gate outputs compared to the MC-4., but I'm not 100% sure.
Mario is currently working indipendently from any company. In the future he'll surely put up a website, and he also wanted to collect the names of us Synthex happy users and list them for future upgrades. Meanwhile we're his contact (and filter) with the "external world". We'll keep you constantly updated.
You're absolutely right about the plaque, there was the S/N, and yes, a Synthex is better than a Prophet-5, starting from its keyboard and finishing with its circuits quality and position: at first sight you can recognize what osc is playing.
I'd be curious to hear your compositions one day, especially your Synthex sounds, obviously.

[arronc]

re Sid Station / Amiga

HI there,

Just a couple of points re SID chips etc.

There are 2 revisions of the sid chip, a noisy early one that the sid station uses, and and far cleaner later revision, which it does not support. The way to go with these is the Hardsid (www.hardsid.com) that lets you mount four of them on one board, for 12 voices !

The Amiga does not contain either of these chips. My mirage DSK has blown up at the moment, and I am in the middle of fixing it. I can gaurentee it containes no commodore chips !

Stay Well

Arron

[EmaxJS]

I disagree that samplers can't be classic. As someone who runs a website and yahoo! group dedicated to the E-mu Emax line of samplers I can say there is a farily large group of people who considered the original Emax classic and it's sound unduplicatable this is because it used real analogue CEM lowpass filters. The Emax II does a pretty good simulation of these filters (far better than any sampler by any company that came out afterwards) and that's why to this day bands that have access to any gear they want (NIN, Oribital, DM) are still using their Emax II's they are simply unreplaceable classics and overlooked because they don't have the power, memory capacity, or bells and whistles new samplers do.