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Thread: Your thoughts on immigration

  1. #1


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    Default Your thoughts on immigration

    This has been a rather touchy subject the past few days, but i'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the matter, especially the illegalization of immigration aid.

    I myself am pretty torn on my views; a little hypocritical actually.

    One part of me thinks "Hey, they should have the same chance we did!" and all that they need is a little push in the right direction, which in turn will reduce the amount of coyotes (those whom are paid to sometimes inhumainly transport individuals over the boarders) that hurdle people into down right horrid conditions. In other words, have open borders, offer relief programs, education and so on so that they may legally work and live here. Of course that'd only work in the perfect world. This is where my confliction lies.

    On the otherhand, I'm furious that so many jobs are being lost, by outsourcing and/or being occupied by illegal immigrants. Why hire someone qualified at 8/hour when you can hire someone who isn't, but will do whatever you want them to do for 4-5/hour. It's especially evident in LA since it's damn near impossible to get a beginning job here nowadays (take it from me, it really is.. I've been trying to get a job for months, and i've applied to damn near 20 different places),

    I think instead of illegalizing aid, we should close off the boarders and get the illegals that are here legalized so that they can finally join the fair workforce.

    But before we can help them, we as a nation must help ourselves. It may sound selfish, but we have alot of problems that must be solved- like a growing unemployment rate. It seems like that we as a nation have decided to build in a figurative swamp- no matter how strong our pillars are, or how many we build, we keep sinking further and further. The best way to characterize this is the outsouring problem- Extremely strong singular companies, but a weakening economy with which they are settled.

    To sum in up: I believe in good will to everyone and everything, but we must prioritize ourselves so that we are secure before we as a nation decide to valiantly help others. I'm not saying kick them out, but in order to strengthen ourselves, either get them legalized quickly so that they join the fair competitive workforce, or perhaps make it where companies that knowingly and willingly employ illegals are fined... Actually scratch that last thing, if that were the case then they'd be fired and it would only contribute to the growing unemployment rate and degradation.

    Anywho, quite sorry for the rant! I am curious as to what other people think and suggest.
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  2. #2
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    Closing off the borders isn't going to work because people are going to find a way in somehow and it will encourage more of the coyote-type smuggling in. It's like the so-called "war on drugs"...for every bust you hear about, there's still plenty of drugs getting into the country. I respectfully have to disagree with the thing about losing all the "good" jobs to illegals. If they are getting a pittance for doing it, it's the sort of work we'd consider "menial". The folks who are able to do the more skilled jobs also have the means to come in legitimately and the ability to bargain for a fair wage because their situation isn't desperate to begin with. A better solution to the illegal immigrant problem would be to establish businesses in the places they're coming from so they wouldn't be taking on the considerable risks they do just to have a chance at a better life.
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  3. #3


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    should have a 10 ft pole, but here goes.....

    borders:
    imo, as much as i want them, open borders would = even more wars...territorial pissings and all that. borders over the world have been established over the centuries, for better or worse. and yet we still have wars, but under the guise of politics, vs resources...ugh.
    and Britain's won in the end, imo.

    immigration:
    go about it legally in -any- nation. otherwise, the law of that state/nation stands until repealed, ammended or otherwise. dont like it, contact your congress person. vote.
    Britain and Netherlands tightened their immigration laws in the past two years. fwiw, i havent seen anyone condemning them internationally.
    as for the US, this land was stolen. and this nation was built on the backs of slaves, indigenous peoples, -and- immigrants.
    furthermore, illegal immigrants, in any nation, fly a big F You flag in the face of those who immigrate legally. so...

    outsourcing (a different, though somewhat related issue):
    people dont like telemarketing/customer support/etc, and where have most of those jobs gone? and for cheaper.
    do those people need/deserve jobs too? yes.
    the problem is international companies, for various reasons, too numerous to go into here. then you step into the issues of free vs fair trade. spend your money wisely. it's very difficult to sift through the shite.

    immigrant workers:
    personally, i'd love to work on a farm for a decent wage. but guess what, the general population doesnt give two bits about farmers or where their food comes from, thereby giving way to cheaper labour, human/worker rights abuses, and concepts like 'menial' tasks.
    and when those concepts fester, it perpetuates a class war, imo.

    immigrant aide:
    illegalizing it for charities (denominational or not) is wrong, imo. it already is illegal for companies, no matter how small, to employ illegal immigrants in any manner, so theres no issue there...and thats what needs to be actually enforced imo (but see my point about 'menial' tasks above). you see, it's companies/contractors that hire cheap labour, because theyre too greedy to pay a decent wage to an LPR/citizen.
    bottom dollar will get you everytime, unfortunately.
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  4. #4
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    immigration? Yes! I am an immigrant myself.

    Illegal? No! There are legal ways to get into countries, which depend on the needs and laws of each country.
    So OK... people try to get in illegally, but that's their choice... it's their gamble. If they can get away with it, then fantastic. If the law decides they need to be kicked out, then they get kicked out and should deal with it. Nobody should immigrate illegally without being prepared to deal with being kicked out of the country.
    When it comes to politics, one has to look at the global picture to make decisions. Looking down at specific personal dramas will not allow rational decisions. If we look at individual sad stories then 1/2 of Africa could just as well move here in Europe and then instead of having one sinking continent we'd have two.

    I'll just shut up now before some of you people print my photo and draw a little moustache on it. :/

  5. #5

  6. #6


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    My thoughts on immigration in the UK:

    First off, I LOVE living in a multi-cultural society. As they say 'verity is the spice of life".
    To me there are three catagories of immigrant.
    A) Those who come here with skills or to learn skills, hell even those without skills, who want to contribute to society and our economy. A vast proportion of our health service is imported labour, largely trained nurses for other countries. If you want to come here I believe you must be willing to work for you keep, as it were.
    B) Asylum seakers, Those in ture jepordy in their country of origin form fear of torture, imprisonment, harrasment or death. I believe EVERY country on the planet has a reponsability to help these kinds of people if they can.
    and then theres...
    C) Those who come from countries where they are not being persicuted and have a job but come here 'cos we have a free health service, good wellfare, they can probably get a council house etc...
    I don't believe there is any reason for us to allow 'C' into the country. 'A' and 'B' are fine by me though.
    Although I do believe everyone who wants to come here should have (or be willing to learn) a good standard of English (both spoken and written) and should be able to sensibly reconcile their beliefs and values with that of English society (civil rights, free speach, equality etc...).
    As for 'stealing out jobs', that really isn't a problem in the UK, we need workers.
    None of this is probably relevent to a US based discussion though
    Crash

  7. #7


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    I still don't understand why a lot of mexicanos are waving the Mexican Flag, when its their corrupt government it represents that needs to get stomped out. Instead they'd rather go to church and break their back. Weak.

    California is going towards the crapper, pending real e$tate bubble burst, daily Black vs. Latino brawls in schools and jails, and the biggest earthquake just around the corner, it behooves those of us with the means to continue to bank offshore, fill up equitable reserves, and be prepared for whatever but not really linger on about it.

    This whole issue and its proposals are just another step to decrease the Middle Class category. Once you lose your cheap labor, prices will rise, homelessness and crime will increase, but it can also be a good thing because it will force American citizens to get up from their lazy fat asses to clean & maintain their own lawns, janitorial, daycare (stop having babies if you can't afford 'em, bitches!), fast food / restaurant employees (stop EATING fat pigs), etc. etc.

    So its always healthy to look at both ends of this spectrum.

    Don't entirely or mostly blame immigrants, because businesses and local government allowed the issue to accumulate by adopting a hands-off policy for years. As long as it benefited them with cheap labor and economic growth mostly from consumption & higher profits, the less they listened to warnings of how out of hand things could get.

    Another viewpoint most swine skinned hogs don't realize, is that the situation south of the border pretty much makes it almost impossible for the majority to live straight up above poverty level. There is little to no middle class over there, just the wealthy (business/gov't sector) and the poor (workers) with constraints & lack of resources to become educated. Kidnappings are on the rise, etc. etc. Only popular option they see is working in the U.S., where MOST business owners are ready and willing to take advantage of paying them a few bucks cash under the table, no overtime, no benefits, and they employ hard workers who don't whine and complain. (that's another problem they have, too timid)

    But even those that are here or were born in the U.S. after 1980, you've got about 98% of all television and radio broadcasts transmitting nothing but mental garbage, and since EDUCATION BEGINS AT THE HOME, ignorant church going God fearing pendejo parents aren't applying discipline with their kids, overseeing their homework, understanding the English language to communicate with their teachers, and even worse......this backwards cowboy Spaniard raped semen smeared ranchero mentality that ensures they stay at the bottom, praying to their Virgin Mary, driving pieces of shit with mismatched paint jobs and chrome wheels, listen to repetitive sheep bass tejano music, and wave the corrupt mexican flag while chanting Viva La Raza and Viva Mexico!

  8. #8
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    Viva Mexico??? *points south* The border is right there! Go and enjoy!

  9. #9
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    CQ, you mentioned in your post that you were having a hard time finding work. Not to pry, but what type of jobs are you trying to get? Someone here might be able to help or offer suggestions.
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  10. #10


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    I understand alot of your view points in this; it's definately a hard problem to poke at. And i agree that they themselves could do something to make it better for everyone, since it's understandable that they wish to escape poverty, corruption, etc down in Mexico. Almost every day i see Latinos out right refusing to learn the english language. The rate of college bound latino is extremely low right now (for many reasons though). And gods, don't even get me started on the blood wars around here. At least once or twice a year we see large masses of hispanics fighting blacks at my school. By large, i mean a good 200+ people involved.

    I'm not xenophobic in the least, i love living in LA; it's just that sometimes i can't help myself but think "They could do so much better!" That sentiment goes across all cultures- Americans included.


    Originally posted by labrat
    CQ, you mentioned in your post that you were having a hard time finding work. Not to pry, but what type of jobs are you trying to get? Someone here might be able to help or offer suggestions.

    Right now i've just been applying to entry level jobs so i can get some experience, plus money saved up for college. Stuff like Petco, Starbucks (Although it goes against all my own morals applying there), Sav-on, Vons, Trader Joes, some local coffee shops, Dick Blick Art supplies, and a few clerical jobs. Haven't gotten a single one, despite having a qualified resume. Other than that, I just do freelance graphic design, which sadly doesn't come as often as i'd like it to.
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  11. #11


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    Im anti immigration on the grounds of:
    britain is a tiny country with a 60 Million Population. The optimal population is 36 Million. Theres mass unemployment across the UK are manafacturing and service sectors are dead or laying off 100,000's each year. We dont need anymore people theres not the resouces/jobs or money to cater for any more people. The country is on mass economic delcline.
    My view is not based on race/colour/religeons e.t.c. It is on the basis britain can no longer cope it is just to smallerer country and golabalisation has lost us majority of our jobs..
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  12. #12
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Kirlian Blue
    Im anti immigration on the grounds of:
    britain is a tiny country with a 60 Million Population. The optimal
    I could say the exact same thing about the whole planet. People just won't reduce breeding down to reasonable levels... :/

  13. #13


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    Originally posted by Paradoxxx


    I could say the exact same thing about the whole planet. People just won't reduce breeding down to reasonable levels... :/
    I do agree to many unwanted kids being brought in to this world...
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  14. #14


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    Originally posted by Kirlian Blue
    Im anti immigration on the grounds of:
    britain is a tiny country with a 60 Million Population. The optimal population is 36 Million. Theres mass unemployment across the UK are manafacturing and service sectors are dead or laying off 100,000's each year. We dont need anymore people theres not the resouces/jobs or money to cater for any more people. The country is on mass economic delcline.
    My view is not based on race/colour/religeons e.t.c. It is on the basis britain can no longer cope it is just to smallerer country and golabalisation has lost us majority of our jobs..
    I'm arfaid most of these 'facts' come from various right wing propoganda, they want you to believe this stuff to 'keep 'em out'. The UK's population is around 60 million, not because of immigration but because people are living longer, the number os 20-60 year olds in the UK has remained pretty constant for a century but the number of over 60's has more than doubled. All these 'extra' people are not working or contribuing to our econamy. Numerous academic reports state that more people of working age are needed in this country to prop up our econamy. As I've already mentioned the NHS, for example, is largely immigrant labor. Also the UK is becoming better educated and better skilled and that is creating a shortage of workers for unskilled jobs in industrial roles.
    The UKs unemployment is at around 5%, which is not so bad and a lot of this is highly skilled people 'waiting' for the right job, as I said Britian's educated doesn't want the more menial jobs. You should reserch Britian under the last Conservative government, particularly the Thatcher years, that's real unemployment! And the number of job vacancies in the UK is increasing.
    And the optimal population figure of around 36 million is for a sustainable envionmental Britian, not economic figures.
    There are many sources that say that we need more immigrant labour if we are to continue to be the world's fith largest econamy.
    Crash

  15. #15


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    Thats why i most my mates have been made redundant and wages have gone down. These people are all highly skilled. Ive lived in london all my life and seen town after town go to shit. All the big buisness's are shutting down and mostareas riddled with mass unemployment.

    I know of a lot of cases where people have been made redundant then replaced by cheap imported labour form eastern europe ( as they have no work i cnat blame them for looking elsewhere). I do agree Thatcher did fuck things up and so has Blair.
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  16. #16
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Kirlian Blue


    I do agree to many unwanted kids being brought in to this world...
    Even if they're wanted! Some people just have 10 kids and they can't even feed one of them properly!

  17. #17

  18. #18
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    which reminds me that my Greencard expired back in Aug and haven't even applied for citizenship... Damn...

    Gottta do my taxes tooo.....damn..
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  19. #19


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    Simple economical view

    Immigration helps the economic of the country gain faster in the growth of economic trades. The downside is it only makes upper middle and upper classes become richer, and lower middle class and poor class earn less. Overall, it is proven that it makes more money for each country as whole, but not for working individuals.
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  20. #20


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    Exactly Pop that coochie,

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