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Thread: Your thoughts on immigration

  1. #21
    Chief ElectroGardener 7red7's Avatar
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    Here's what I don't get...These children, adults and protestors alike are all chanting viva Mexico and waving the country's flag, yet this same country they are praising is the same one they are willing to do almost anything to escape from...

    Oh and the next time I'm trying to assist a customer on the phone or communicate with someone and they confusedly ask me; "Uh, you no e-speak-a Spaneesh?" I'M GOING TO FUCKING BITCH SLAP THEM!!! You're in America people, you wanna live here bitches learn to speak what we speak!!! You would expect nothing but the same from us when we're visiting your country...Having grown up where I did and lived for eighteen years and having been to Mexico a number of times I speak solely from experience...
    "For every minute of my life I spend unhappy, that's one minute of my life I've wasted, and I refuse to spend my time wasting my life."

  2. #22
    Lead ElectroGardener Bornslippy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 7red7
    Here's what I don't get...These children, adults and protestors alike are all chanting viva Mexico and waving the country's flag, yet this same country they are praising is the same one they are willing to do almost anything to escape from...

    Oh and the next time I'm trying to assist a customer on the phone or communicate with someone and they confusedly ask me; "Uh, you no e-speak-a Spaneesh?" I'M GOING TO FUCKING BITCH SLAP THEM!!! You're in America people, you wanna live here bitches learn to speak what we speak!!! You would expect nothing but the same from us when we're visiting your country...Having grown up where I did and lived for eighteen years and having been to Mexico a number of times I speak solely from experience...

    well, just don't bitch slap my people(the Filipino's) k *wink...
    I get confused the most with my other people(the chinese).. Like
    "kiss me" and I'm like "what?" oh "excuse me."


    My people(Mexicans, North Polians, Chinese, Tibet, English). I feel this way because I'm part of the human race. I'm just looking at this thing at a larger picture... AGain, none of us are from the states anyway originally... THis land was stolen...
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  3. #23
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    Mark, I see your point, and being Asian myself who knows a bit of my "own" language it's great that people know more than one language. But that doesn't excuse people from not learning how to speak a new language if they want to live someplace where their native tongue isn't the primary language. It's nice that we have bilingual signs to help make things easier, but folks shouldn't think that it means it's OK to never learn how to communicate with the majority. If you want to be able to really do something with your life besides being stuck in the bottom echelon of the workforce, you've got to be able to fit in better than that. It's nothing against anyone, but I've always wondered why Hispanics were the only ones who seem to balk about learning English when they are in a predominately English-speaking country. As you pointed out, everyone came from someplace else at one time or another, but we didn't all expect the rest of us to speak whatever language was spoken back at home...I'm going to stop before I'm flamed off the place...
    \"I will live forever in your mind, thoughts are forever intertwined...\" Red Flag \"Eternal Flame\"

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  4. #24


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    I agree with Mark, Red, and Kath..

    It's one thing to visit a country and not know the language, but to live here.. You at least have to try! I have friends whose parents know not a single word of english, and they've lived here over 15 years. There's really no excuse for it. Even worse is that i often see classmates and peers refusing to learn the language as well. It's not because they can't learn it, but it's because they don't want to, and i've heard from a latino or two "Why don't you learn Spanish??" .. I don't know, maybe because i don't live in a spanish speaking country? It's great to be bilingual and all, but there's a point. It's also fine to love your heritage, but please, don't be a hypocrit at the same time.
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  5. #25
    ElectroGardener Paradoxxx's Avatar
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    i often see classmates and peers refusing to learn the language as well. It's not because they can't learn it, but it's because they don't want to

    English must be the easiest language to learn ever! What's their problem?

    My brother's girlfriend has moved from Portugal here to Belgium to join him about 1 month ago. Before coming here, she studied French in Portugal... and now that she's here she'll start Dutch classes at the end of this month (French and Dutch are 2 of the 3 official languages in Belgium, each one used as a main language by 1/2 of the population). It's a matter of respect, integration and making life easier for herself as well.

  6. #26


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    Many of the arguments I've read don't consider the economic impact on the labor market. Making broad generalizations that illegal immigrants steal jobs from people is not entirely accurate. I'll go into more detail when I get a chance... Those who have studied work and labor markets will understand where I'm coming from.
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  7. #27


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    Good thread - I had a former coworker who would joke all the time, "This is America Dammit, Speak Spanish!!" LOL

    ahh, anyway...

    My parents came here from Brazil with work visas, learned the English language immediately, took the tests, became citizens, raised a family, bought a house and live by the rules. They worked thier asses off for everything they got and gave to me and my sister. I the immigrants in question are the ones who sneak in to the country without going through the proper channels.

    First off, I LOVE living in a multi-cultural society. As they say 'verity is the spice of life".
    As do I! I live in very multi cultural area and it's great to be exposed to so many different things i'd never have the opportunity too!

    Immigrants do the jobs no one wants to do and I can appreciate that. They probably feel they can live better here and have opportunites they otherwise wouldn't like going to schools, learning skills or a trade... and it's maybe true and good for them for taking the chance.

    At the end of the day, tho, they are here illegally and need to understand it's nothing personal. I know that sounds like an uber bitchy statement, but what makes some people so special that the rules don't apply to them and they can just come here, live, work, contribute to the ongoing pollution issues and natural resource shortages and think they have a right to live here? lol

    What's the difference between that and me barging in to Labrats' home with a suitcase? "yea, i had a home of my own, but it sucked and you have a pool, and luxuries like a full fridge and an air conditioner... tell you what, I'll clean your house and rake the leaves and do all the other jobs you don't wanna do and you don't kick me out?"

  8. #28
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElectroSwank
    My parents came here from Brazil with work visas, learned the English language immediately, took the tests, became citizens, raised a family, bought a house and live by the rules.

    That brings up something. I was just reading that people are saying that there's no legal way to get into the US. Maybe I'm just way out of it, but huh?

    What's the difference between that and me barging in to Labrats' home with a suitcase? "yea, i had a home of my own, but it sucked and you have a pool, and luxuries like a full fridge and an air conditioner... tell you what, I'll clean your house and rake the leaves and do all the other jobs you don't wanna do and you don't kick me out?"
    He he he, my place is pretty messy (what'd you expect from a lab rat?) so you're welcome to come and clean it for me. I've got a pool too, but I go to the bathroom in it...but don't worry, I flush it!!!
    \"I will live forever in your mind, thoughts are forever intertwined...\" Red Flag \"Eternal Flame\"

    I don\'t suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. :loco: :goofball:

  9. #29


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    I'm pro-immigration
    I'm pro-immigration reform
    I'm pro-peaceful protests on the matter

    1. I'm completely astounded that everyone involved in the protests here in D/FW listened to the organizers and not only wore white clothes but didn't bring any Mexican Flags. It was a completely peaceful protest from start to finish. Very happy about that.

    2. America is an immigrant country, if you are anti-immigration then you are anti-America in my opinion

    3. we need immigration reform in America. The current system doesn't work obviously. I don't have recommendations at this time regarding this though.

    4. a wall on the border won't work, it's a ridiculous idea

    5. this is a complicated issue for many many reasons and no one should speak out one way or another without thinking about every aspect of the issue

  10. #30


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    Originally posted by labrat
    He he he, my place is pretty messy (what'd you expect from a lab rat?) so you're welcome to come and clean it for me. I've got a pool too, but I go to the bathroom in it...but don't worry, I flush it!!!
    LOL sweet!

    and BTW, I"m not anti-immigration, In fact I have several friends from other countries who moved here from South Africa, Argentina, etc... they got thier visas and had thier jobs sponser them so they can get thier green cards, they went through it the right way - they didn't just come here and hide in the system...

  11. #31


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    I see much trouble in Europe and America in the future. I blame it all on Global Capitalism which does not care about people just profit. Anyway people have a right to protest, but illegal immigration is not a good thing. Illegal Imigrants get exploited and lower wages for exsiting low paid workers. Legal Immigration is more sensible route.
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  12. #32


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    Originally posted by Kirlian Blue
    I see much trouble in Europe and America in the future. I blame it all on Global Capitalism which does not care about people just profit. Anyway people have a right to protest, but illegal immigration is not a good thing. Illegal Imigrants get exploited and lower wages for exsiting low paid workers. Legal Immigration is more sensible route.
    I agree with everything except the last comment.

    Currently to legally come to America it's insane in difficulty. I have a friend down in Mexico who is currently trying to get his visa. Now, The first step is to fork out $500, get an appointment and hope that they say yes on your reasons for wanting a visa. $500 doesn't seem that much, but he (like many people there) makes only about $20 a week. Now in his case, he has an aunt up in Santa Clarita (think that's the name), but for the many of those who don't have connections are forced to raise thousands more for transportation and a roof.

    This is why many resort to illegally coming to the US (by train, freight or Coyote); they simply can't afford it. But when they get here, they're mistreated, mislead and serverely underpaid due to the fact that they're not a legal member of the workforce. They're hard workers though, don't get me wrong.. Many of them work 3 times what a normal legal resident works in a day. This is the reason why many corporations snatch them up like candy as soon as they can, cheap, efficient labor!
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  13. #33
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    And therein lies the rub...As long as there are large numbers of people willing to be exploited and abused in the name of the bottom line, it will continue to happen. We might say it's not right and all, but until the people who are being treated this way seriously protest against it, things won't change. Working conditions in the US a century ago were pretty crappy overall until the advent of unionization and the enactment of labor laws and safety measures.
    \"I will live forever in your mind, thoughts are forever intertwined...\" Red Flag \"Eternal Flame\"

    I don\'t suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. :loco: :goofball:

  14. #34


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    Originally posted by labrat
    And therein lies the rub...As long as there are large numbers of people willing to be exploited and abused in the name of the bottom line, it will continue to happen. We might say it's not right and all, but until the people who are being treated this way seriously protest against it, things won't change. Working conditions in the US a century ago were pretty crappy overall until the advent of unionization and the enactment of labor laws and safety measures.
    Yep. However, most protests on the matter are squelched merely for the fact they are not legally apart of the work force. At the moment, it is a loose/loose situation for illegal immigrants. If you protest for fairer working conditions, then many companies have the power of deportation at their fingertips for all illegals who demand fair work, and if you don't protest, then nothing moves at all. The best bet for this nation is to set up a better immigration program to usher them into the legal workforce quicker so that it is a fair chance for all.

    However, what it all boils down to is the greed and corruption of large corporations- they don't give a shit if they're mistreating people, just if they make a 2% increase in their profit margin. Just like the whole Pharmaceutical corporation fiasco; the mentality is who cares if people die, we get more moneaaay!
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  15. #35
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    Oops, should clarify my last post...what I meant is that people in countries where work such as the textile industry has been outsourced to don't seem to want to protest working conditions there. This is an over-generalization, I know, but it helps contribute to illegal immigrants thinking that life is a heck of a lot better if they just get here. They hear about how "everybody" here live in big houses, drive their own cars, make tons of money, have plenty to eat, etc.; must be like paradise... (I was actually told this by someone who came to the US on a work visa for a white-collar job and found out that his idea of what things were like here weren't *quite* as much as people had cracked them up to be with him back at home.) Then once they get here they find that they're still getting abused by greedy companies who probably feel even more free to do so since illegals aren't entitled to live and work here, after all. If labor conditions were equitable all over the world, there would be less impetus for people to leave their homeland out of desperation. The love of money will get us every time, sadly.
    \"I will live forever in your mind, thoughts are forever intertwined...\" Red Flag \"Eternal Flame\"

    I don\'t suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. :loco: :goofball:

  16. #36


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    Actually I myself have been pooking around to see how to get a work permit in the states (I'm from Sweden). Seems a bit hard to obtain that. I wish the borders were a bit more open, that one could have a test period of 6-12 months where you could work if you could find a job. Now you have to have a job before getting the work permit and a work permit before getting a job. I think a less protective market would allow it to expand and become stronger. USA really need to do something with its economy. It's been downhill for a few decades now.

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  17. #37


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    hmmm.. interesting.. last post from Martin was a good one. I brought an immigrant here from Yugoslavia. It cost me thousands. He is legal, but the bottum line is he works so hard I can't keep up. He was just promoted to GM at a Radio Shack and now making 40K++ I have many Mexican friends (some leagal.. some not.. all hard workers) the work ethic sucks in this country, but that is not to blame each person, but just the lazy "take it for granted" kind of live we have here.. it is like being in Rome in the last days. The bubble will burst. We will all be speaking Chinese soon enough.. which, if you want to know where the manufacturing and industrial jobs are.. trust me the Mexicans don't have them.. the jobs moved somewhere else.

    This is why there were protests in Seattle over the WTO about five years back.. there is no international agreements on labor, enviornment.. all the laws are written to favor the rich, and people are scrambling to get somewhere they can work, even if it's for food and shelter.. as oil prices continue to escalate, we might learn something from the work ethics of these illegal immigrants.. soon enough we may be running somewhere else ourselves.

  18. #38


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    i have an odd outlook on this...my father was born in Germany in the early 50's. He and his twin brother were adopted by an Amercian military family and brought to this country when they were about 5. My father's citizenship has been questioned a couple of times over the years. Currently, he had to apply for a visa because they are questioning the legitimacy of it, yet again, despite the fact that he has lived in this country for 48 years, paid taxes, and is married to an American citizen. The government is also messing with his eligibility for social security.

    I realize that the above is a bit different of an issue than what the U.S. is currently debating, but when people in my small, redneck town start spewing about immigrants, I get a bit testy.

    Most immigrants I see, are willing to work the jobs that so many of us are "above". Mooching off of the government or setting out to cause harm is wrong whether you are an immigrant or a citizen. I just don't see how toughening immigration is stop this terrorist threat that the United States is so fixated on.

    This doesn't make as much sense as I had intended...it's been a rough morning...my apologies...lol
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  19. #39


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    Originally posted by rustcwc
    i have an odd outlook on this...my father was born in Germany in the early 50's. He and his twin brother were adopted by an Amercian military family and brought to this country when they were about 5. My father's citizenship has been questioned a couple of times over the years. Currently, he had to apply for a visa because they are questioning the legitimacy of it, yet again, despite the fact that he has lived in this country for 48 years, paid taxes, and is married to an American citizen. The government is also messing with his eligibility for social security.

    I realize that the above is a bit different of an issue than what the U.S. is currently debating, but when people in my small, redneck town start spewing about immigrants, I get a bit testy.

    Most immigrants I see, are willing to work the jobs that so many of us are "above". Mooching off of the government or setting out to cause harm is wrong whether you are an immigrant or a citizen. I just don't see how toughening immigration is stop this terrorist threat that the United States is so fixated on.

    This doesn't make as much sense as I had intended...it's been a rough morning...my apologies...lol
    Na i understood you loud and clear. I think many of us don't think it's a matter of "mooching", it's a matter of economic stability and fair treatment of employment. The scenario you describe above is definately a strange one, but i'd have to side with your family on it; he has been paying taxes for years, and is married, so he should be entitled to social security.
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  20. #40
    Lead ElectroGardener labrat's Avatar
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    Rust, sorry to hear about them trying to deprive your dad of Social Security. That's just wrong for them to question his citizenship especially after all this time. It sounds like a cheap excuse to avoid paying benefits since the Social Security system is going downhill anyway.
    \"I will live forever in your mind, thoughts are forever intertwined...\" Red Flag \"Eternal Flame\"

    I don\'t suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. :loco: :goofball:

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