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Thread: Goggles and Glowsticks: From harsh to synthpop rave

  1. #1


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    Default Goggles and Glowsticks: From harsh to synthpop rave

    In the late 90's, how did you guys feel when the industrial scene went toward a more, "raver" feel?

    It seems a lot of bands adopted a more trancey/synthpoppier style. VNV went from Advance and Follow to Praise the Fallen...funkerVogt went from Thanks For Nothing to Execution Tracks...Covenant went from Cryotank to United States of Mind...Evil's Toy went from XTC Implant to "Virtual State".
    As of late even jarsh EBM mainstays have adopted a more raver feel. Personally I like it, as from 1994 to 1998 I was happy, but by 1999 I had gotten tired of the 'Velvet Acid Christ/Wumpscut/Leatherstrip" thing.

    Also, where do you think the scene will go next? Bands like Blutengel, Winterkalte, E-Craft, Terrorfakt, Hocico, Fliendflug, etc show there's still a market for harsh industrial dance stuff. Electroclash seems to get played a lot at typiclaly industrial clubs I go to, but I dont think that has a lasting appeal. Back to a more harsher dance sound? Or sped up trippy Detroit acid house ala Harmonizer? *shivers*
    .:\\\\.:PockyBot:.//
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  2. #2


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    Here I'm montreal, a while back, some dj tried to match the raver scene with the industrial scene with quite disasterous results, simply cause in the electroscene, while there migth be some similarities within the dancefloor oriented tracks, the core of the goth industrial scene if quite different, meaning that while all could dance together on a Funker or Apop song, pure industrial or goth people would want some Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Ministry from time to time wich would leave the Ravers complaining, and the ravers would ask the dj to go more into trance, that would leave the goth complaining, on thing on my part that I hate about the ravers is the stupid ligthsticks, completely destroys the ambience and it looks so stupid (I know, its just my feeling about it), sometimes theres just a feeling coming out of the dance floor when everybody is dancing to Wumpscut SoylentGreen, and I believe that ravers ligthstick dont belong there cause it destroys the atmosphere, now I'm not closed minded, I like some rave stuff but in the end while they are similarities, it's to different things, one can listen to the other but to be merged in the club scene, I've never seen it go well, as I dont see goth going to country music clubs, and dont tell me the open mind crap, if I where to play a Brintney Spears next to VNV, I'm sure it would leave some people complaning, would I go, well try to be open minded, no cause some things dont go along no matter what. I'm not saying that people should no try to open up and include different influences in a venue, there just some limitations to the success of having a one world one scene kind of thing,

    Wasn't there a post not long ago here that a dj in detroit got kicked out because some were complaining about the fact that he was to trancey, or was it a email I received, dont remember, now that doesnt tell I'm rigth but it shows that all dont match up that well.

    The end meaning is similarities dont actually mean a match, if guy and a girl share a passion about cars, doesnt mean that they have same opinions on religion for their children, so in the immediate moment when they meet and talk about cars, they migth go wow, thats the person for me, but when they go deeper into personal stuff, they just dont matchup. (this was an anology)

  3. #3


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    i feel great about scenes merging and genre splitting i f*** hate elitist attitudes when it comes to music. i hate scenester exclusivity.
    the best clubs are the ones you go to where everyone is doing thier own thing there is no required uniformity or dress code.
    mix and match whatever genres you want and have fun.

  4. #4


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    Good for you Bill, if you would come to a club and I would dj, I would line up Cotton Eye Joe next Napalm Death followed by Celine Dion and Pavarotti and end it with Exploited, that should keep you happy and dancing, now dont go complaining on my setlist and try to be open minded, were here to have fun and dance.

    If you're read my post carefully, I'm in favor of style merging, but theres a limit to wich you can go and it doesnt always wookout in one event. If people were going out just for the fun of it, why dont you go to the country club, no on one nigth sometimes you expect the music to be within certain bounderies as if a dj in a rave would start to put 6 or 7 pure classical operas followed by jazz for the sake of openmindness, its just not the place for it.

  5. #5


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    I think club formats is a general consensus...I know some goffs complain if it's *too* EBMish at the clubs I go to...but ya know what? It's 2003, almost 2004 not 1987.

    I loved it when VNV dj'd, as it was 110% pure electronic dance: modern EBM, harsh synthpop/futurepop, trance, etc. I mean Sisters of Mercy, Cure, Minsitry...that was cool like a decade ago...but from talking to people a lot come to hear and dance to the new stuff, not have a total nostalgia trip like a lot of clubs get stuck into.

    Personally if I ran a club it'd be only tracks made after 1998, but that's because I like high energy dark stuff...old industrial seems to stripped down and slower(hence why I liek the rave-ish influences)

    As for ravers...I think theyd dig VNV and Apop if theyd just stay off the E for a couple days, tho I think stuff ike :wumpscut" and Hocico would be too much for em.
    .:\\\\.:PockyBot:.//
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  6. #6


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    I think that blending is cool and all. Lets face facts in some areas, if ravers/gravers/industrial kids didn't show for goth nights. We'd loose them to poor attendance.


    Then more the merrier.

    ( I'm still not getting glow sticks though)

  7. #7


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    I like how there is more mixing as well. It makes the scene more interesting. I like the more synthpop stuff and the harsh stuff too. A lot of bands are good at mixing them, and I enjoy the music. Apop and VNV do a good job with it. Overall for me, however, if I like music I will listen to it, no matter what genre it is.
    M3L1B174

  8. #8


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    Originally posted by Neural Shock
    Good for you Bill, if you would come to a club and I would dj, I would line up Cotton Eye Joe next Napalm Death followed by Celine Dion and Pavarotti and end it with Exploited, that should keep you happy and dancing, now dont go complaining on my setlist and try to be open minded, were here to have fun and dance.

    If you're read my post carefully, I'm in favor of style merging, but theres a limit to wich you can go and it doesnt always wookout in one event. If people were going out just for the fun of it, why dont you go to the country club, no on one nigth sometimes you expect the music to be within certain bounderies as if a dj in a rave would start to put 6 or 7 pure classical operas followed by jazz for the sake of openmindness, its just not the place for it.
    whatever bro take it to the extreme i couldnt care less whats being played in a club as long as it fun.
    to read into my response that i want you to spin exploted and celine dion is a bit daft.
    and also extremely prententious on your behalf.
    i couldnt give a hoot what a djs playing in the end i can go down the street and listen to something else anyways
    in fact i didnt read your post at all as i was responding to the first post on this list.

  9. #9


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    Originally posted by platformone
    I think that blending is cool and all. Lets face facts in some areas, if ravers/gravers/industrial kids didn't show for goth nights. We'd loose them to poor attendance.


    Then more the merrier.

    ( I'm still not getting glow sticks though)
    Well said platformone! In fact, the whole "goth" scene is now a mesh of individuals from all walks of the sub-cultures! It's more interesting and exciting that way,.. at least to me! I personally like a good mix of music and that's what I try to play when I spin! I try to tell an action packed tale with a start, centre, and finish! In this day and age, I wouldn't desire it any other way!

    (No glowsticks for me either!!) lol
    \"You gave away your life\'s grace. I cannot protect you any more!\"

  10. #10


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    Originally posted by rivetbadtz
    I think club formats is a general consensus...I know some goffs complain if it's *too* EBMish at the clubs I go to...but ya know what? It's 2003, almost 2004 not 1987.

    I loved it when VNV dj'd, as it was 110% pure electronic dance: modern EBM, harsh synthpop/futurepop, trance, etc. I mean Sisters of Mercy, Cure, Minsitry...that was cool like a decade ago...but from talking to people a lot come to hear and dance to the new stuff, not have a total nostalgia trip like a lot of clubs get stuck into.

    Personally if I ran a club it'd be only tracks made after 1998, but that's because I like high energy dark stuff...old industrial seems to stripped down and slower(hence why I liek the rave-ish influences)

    As for ravers...I think theyd dig VNV and Apop if theyd just stay off the E for a couple days, tho I think stuff ike :wumpscut" and Hocico would be too much for em.
    When I named bands like Cure, Sisters and Ministry, it took it to extremes to show the difference between the raver and goth industrial background, even the modern industrial scene with band like VNV, Apop does not match well with a typical Glowstick raver kid, yes some migth listen to the other and vice versa, but it you take it in general, the rave scene and and modern ebm industrial venue dont match up that well in practice (most raver are not into synthpop, ebm, industrial, the energy is quite different, even if the electronic fondation as some simularities, read my post again, I'm in favor of different influences and musical direction, theres just a limit to it, open minded or not, not all goes well together, while some ravers migth like and EBM venue, most dont like band like Iris, DM, blutengel, fictional, pride and fall, VNV , Hocico, wumpscut, Suicide Commando, FLA ect new or old, doest matter.

    Dont get me wrong, I respect you're taste for ravish stuff, but if youre so much into raver dance music or high energy music as you call it, just go to a rave and stop trying to convert the EBM synthpop industrial scene into a raver glowstick venue, If you like both, good but dont expect them to match up as I have seen djs try and fail over and over, it simply never worked out, open minded or not.

  11. #11


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    Christ, I WISH I could get away with the Exploited! Some of my most fun sets have incorporated punk and ska with everything from Big Black to pop dance (Groove is in the Heart, anyone?). Still, I love the fact that harder stuff is becoming more and more requested. Sure, some new synth does well and EBM is, well, EBM, but I know that I couldn't fill a floor by dropping Converter, Manufactura, Asche or This Morn Omina, but now we get a nice crowd going.

    I think VNV styled EBM (not VNV mind you) is going the way of the dodo. Sure, a Pride and Fall can surface until the next VNV is out, but overall it's gotten so stale and boring that I could care less if Apop EVER puts anything out again, and I LOVE Welcome To Earth.

    Variety makes a club night very important, and you aren't going to please everyone all the time...unless you play Covenant and VNV all night long Seriously though, I think it's more important to give a crowd a unique experience every time and tossing a few surprises in there, "industrial" or not. I know some DJs around here who do hybrids (DJ Whiterabbit, yo), some who drop hip-hop, some who get off on playing Kylie Minogue and Tarkan, and idiots like me who try and jack the BPMs WAY past dancable.

    Not to be a screamer of "never conform", but there's a balance to be had of all the styles, and it's a disservice to the crowd and yourself to not keep things interesting. And it's only MUSIC, for Chrissakes!

    -Eurotic
    Visit deadbeatproductions.com for information on the new \"HaLO: The Best of Madtown Electro & Synth NOW!

  12. #12


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    Originally posted by Neural Shock

    Dont get me wrong, I respect you're taste for ravish stuff, but if youre so much into raver dance music or high energy music as you call it, just go to a rave and stop trying to convert the EBM synthpop industrial scene into a raver glowstick venue

    I actually told Ronan when he dj'd here a couple weeks ago, the palce turned into a kind of "EBM rave", witht he nonstop megamix EBM fused with trance set.

    Raves??? I emant more of that 'rave' sound. Goody ass kids hoped up on e with gloves, big ass clown pants, pacifyers, and spasticly twitching around with glow beads doesnt appeal to me. Hell no...I despise that scene...its all about the drugs usually with nary a care for who the heck the music is. In that scene(and I know) most patrons arent really aware of specific bands, as 'bands' are djs spinning other people's music.

    No, I like my goggles, cyber rivet chicks, big stompy boots, etc.
    Luckily most people are kind of like "um...damn" when the Suicide Commando, VNV, Apop, :W:, funker, E-Craft stompyness gets interupted with old 80's goff crap. It's like "Ok, time to let the old batskull boot people have their fun". But for th emost part, most the folks I meet at the clubs near me are into futuristic stompy EBM/synthpop, not old stuff.

    As for VNV bands going the way of the dodo? I hope not! Heck, I wouldnt be into the new suicide commando cd as much if it didnt have that tranceish sound.

    Btw, what's up with the name "Pride and Fall"? I can think of a million cooler band names than that (that name brings up images of Erasure in a civil war renactment outfit)
    .:\\\\.:PockyBot:.//
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  13. #13
    Lead ElectroGardener Jupiter 4's Avatar
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    I used to play Goggles and Glosticks in junior high school...I think...
    We\'re no longer as thick as thieves

    HOLD FAST

  14. #14


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    Originally posted by Jupiter 4
    I used to play Goggles and Glosticks in junior high school...I think...
    I'm a level 60 dark raver mage^_^
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    a cyberpunk kid...a tech girl, and a ninja penguin...the wacky cyberpunk adventure has begun

  15. #15


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    I'm seeing two distinctly separate directions currently:

    - Synthpop, ala most of what is idolized (with good reason) here at EGN. Way userfriendly, but still edgey enough to escape being bubblegum.

    (One might argue that by definition EBM is near the center, but closer to this path than it is to..)

    - Rhythmic Noize, ala Iszoloscope, Mono no aware, Converter, Exclipsect, etc. Most of it is not dancefloor deployable, but there is a significant portion that is.. this makes it userfriendly enough to propagate past the experimentalists and into the general populace eventually.

    Discuss.
    !J!
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  16. #16


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    Originally posted by cephalopod
    I'm seeing two distinctly separate directions currently:

    - Synthpop, ala most of what is idolized (with good reason) here at EGN. Way userfriendly, but still edgey enough to escape being bubblegum.

    (One might argue that by definition EBM is near the center, but closer to this path than it is to..)

    - Rhythmic Noize, ala Iszoloscope, Mono no aware, Converter, Exclipsect, etc. Most of it is not dancefloor deployable, but there is a significant portion that is.. this makes it userfriendly enough to propagate past the experimentalists and into the general populace eventually.

    Discuss.
    As long as it's dancey has has somewhat of a thumpin beat(and is under 5 min with a catchy chorus) I'm sure a lot of peopel are pleased with punch on the dancefloor. But dancable is the keyword...to me theres too much synthpop thats beyond lite, way too minimalist...and too much industrial/noise thats just too headache inducing.
    .:\\\\.:PockyBot:.//
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  17. #17


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    Originally posted by rivetbadtz

    Raves??? I emant more of that 'rave' sound. Goody ass kids hoped up on e with gloves, big ass clown pants, pacifyers, and spasticly twitching around with glow beads doesnt appeal to me. Hell no...I despise that scene...its all about the drugs usually with nary a care for who the heck the music is. In that scene(and I know) most patrons arent really aware of specific bands, as 'bands' are djs spinning other people's music.
    Oh ur talking about candy kids- actually you got them all wrong- one of my friend's is a candy kid but she's like- extremely into her music and it isn't so bad. Not all of them do drugs but yes- some people do just get into the scene for that purpose. My friend doesn't do drugs but she does dress like you mentioned- It's just their style, sort of like we have our own style. They do care for the music a lot- They're practically obsessed with it- I know this cause I've been exposed to their scene quite a bit. They're really cool people-

    As for combining....well i like dancy synthpop- nobody ever gets tired of dancing, well i don't- as for the rave and synthpop scenes clashing, it would be a little odd considering the rave scene originally adopted the glowsticks and whatnot- it'd be sorta like copying them wouldn't it? i do listen to some trance and i really admire their music but i'm not sure if the 2 scenes are ready to combine.
    // lost are the ones who love at all costs //

  18. #18


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    It is cool your friend being a candy kid is really into the scene itself. Frankly I have never met one that cared about the music. It was just about dressing the part and talking about extasy all the time. I cannot respect someone who just is around for the recognition of being something they are not, but I respect your friend. Kudos!
    Oh and I would rather die than wear circus tent pants, people.
    M3L1B174

  19. #19


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    lol- well yea....circus pants.....come to think of it- circus ANYTHING is not my style- but yea- candy kids ain't all bad- my friend is very aware of the fact there are people who only get into the scene for tyle and drugs- she rants about it all the time, how cops have to come shut down parties cause people just wanna do drugs. every scene has it's league of posers =P
    // lost are the ones who love at all costs //

  20. #20


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    Yeah but it is a shame that the raver scene has such a bad reputation for doing nothing but drugs. I can see why the parties get shut down so fast. I have a friend who goes to raves (he likes the drugs) and he says they try to not give out locations to the raves for as long as possible to help prevent being shut down by cops.
    M3L1B174

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