New Echo Image

[~Provision]

anyone have any clue whats goin on with them?
we need a new album?

[~jetjaguar15]

ever since they left ADD, they've been really quiet, with just the one single coming out. Anybody understand their leaving ADD? I can't see why Hard Drive couldn't be thier european label and ADD still be the label they were on in North America....

[~Kessler]

Yeah I don't get it. Why release a single and then make the fans wait for over half a year to get any news on a possible new album. I think 'Endless Day' would have done FAR better if it was followed by a new album right afterwards.

[~FxBoy]

They said they're currently still in the process of completing their sophomore album. I wonder myself why it took so long for the new album to come up when they had released "Endless Day" single a long time ago. Hopefully it's not a struggle between members. Hopefully everything's fine with them. Maybe they're just a bunch of perfectionists....... afraid to release the album when they don't feel perfectly satisfied about it.

Seriuosly though, they need to speed up........ and at least keeping all the fans up-to-date with the progress. This project seems to be so secretive. No leaks whatsoever. come on guys, leak a little please.........

[~intro]

This isn't official or anything, just personal opinion, but I think I know why they signed to Hard Drive.

I think they're total Stephan Groth fanboys, and they think it will help sell records if his name and label are on it. I think they want the affiliation with Groth so it will earn them some sort of "coolness," or something stupid like that. Look at the sticker that was on the Endless Day single. Look at their mentions of Groth in the past in CD inserts, their web site, etc.

In addition, on the Endless Day single, you can hear numerous sounds in the tracks that have been lifted straight out of Apop songs. It's like they just loaded up the Apop bank on their synth and went for it.

The reality is that they're better than Apop. They just need to get the ¤¤¤¤ over it and quit sounding like him. And yeah, get the damn album done. I'm getting sick of waiting too.

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by intro
This isn't official or anything, just personal opinion, but I think I know why they signed to Hard Drive.

I think they're total Stephan Groth fanboys, and they think it will help sell records if his name and label are on it. I think they want the affiliation with Groth so it will earn them some sort of "coolness," or something stupid like that. Look at the sticker that was on the Endless Day single. Look at their mentions of Groth in the past in CD inserts, their web site, etc.

In addition, on the Endless Day single, you can hear numerous sounds in the tracks that have been lifted straight out of Apop songs. It's like they just loaded up the Apop bank on their synth and went for it.

The reality is that they're better than Apop. They just need to get the ¤¤¤¤ over it and quit sounding like him. And yeah, get the damn album done. I'm getting sick of waiting too.

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

I hate to say it, but I think Mark might be right on this one. I truly hope that is not the case. Echo Image's debut CD was just pure gold for me. Hope it continues with the next one.

[~synth-master]

true that....true that. :)

[~Todd Durrant]

Insider note (if anybody cares). The only reason I was given for Echo Image wanting to go to Hard:Drive for their next album instead of directly with A Different Drum was purely nationalistic. Their manager said that they've always wanted to be on a Norwegian label. At the time of their first release, the only other possible Norwegian label was Tatra (the label of Apoptygma Berzerk, Icon of Coil...their buddies) who wasn't interested. So, they sort of "defaulted" to A Different Drum. Once Hard:Drive was started, they were invited and accepted because they had their chance to be on a Norwegian label.

If there are other reasons, they were not given to me personally. I was just told about their desire for a label in their homeland, and was told that ADD could possibly license the album from that label for the USA (though past communications with the label never got a reply, maybe because no album was near ready for release).

The following is personal speculation: I've also considered that maybe ADD lost a bit of favor in their management's eyes because of problems with the German label to which we licensed "Compuphonic". ADD licensed that album to Bloodline Records in Germany. That label sold a good number of CD's (even into our Canadian territory), but never paid a dime for any of the sales and never even provided the band with inventory support on their tour. We received only one sales report after the first year that was over 1,000 CD's sold, but never got paid. Of course, that money is mostly the band's money, so they never got anything out of the European deal. It's been my own feeling that maybe this affected their opinion about future label plans. Maybe by having a label "in Norway" they felt like they could have a more direct relationship which would be less likely to screw them financially. They'd be working with a friend who they could check on personally at any time. Not that ADD ever screwed them, but just that it was ADD that set up the deal with Bloodline, and thus partly our "fault" that it didn't work out. Bloodline no longer exists.

That was more info than you want :-)
-Todd

[NoirTech]

Wow. Thanks for the details Todd. I don't think it is more information than we wanted. Makes us look at this from different point of views. Great info for the "Echo Image : Behind the Music".
heh. Like if that would ever happen. :-P

[~jetjaguar15]

Thanks for the insight and honesty Todd. Hopefully thing will work out so that ADD can have a good relationship with Echo Image in the future.

[~CUBALIST MUZIK]

Speaking from a point of view of a member of a band that's based in Europe and only signed in North America (Empire State Human), it's difficult to exist and not have a EU deal to work in conjunction with a North American one. I'm sure being in the placer that you're signed in can have advantages with regard to playing festivals and gaining promotional opportunites and chance to meet people that actuall buy your CD's. It's our goal to obtain a EU deal, to release future ESH albums with and thus gain better opportunites for playing live and networking our band in home shores.

Just a thought.

Aidan
www.empirestatehuman.com

[~Todd Durrant]

Originally posted by jetjaguar15
Thanks for the insight and honesty Todd. Hopefully thing will work out so that ADD can have a good relationship with Echo Image in the future.

Oh, we don't have a bad relationship. At least I don't think so. I like to think that any band that releases something with A Different Drum is a friend and that they are always welcome to come and go as they please. Once Echo Image gets their album out on Hard Drive, I'll be supporting it all I can, whether we get to release it in the USA or not.

-Todd

[~pristine]

Originally posted by FxBoy
[b]They said they're currently still in the process of completing their sophomore album. I wonder myself why it took so long for the new album to come up when they had released "Endless Day" single a long time ago. b>


in the end norwegians seem to be a little lazy..I mean look at the sideproject of mr. apop FAIRLIGHT CHILDREN, nothing released until now but they announced to release something in april....and they need too much time to update their websites--> www.iconofcoil.com
www.apoptygmaberzerk.de
www.echoimage.com


..or maybe they just chill in their beloved country....anyway I'm going to move over and study their for one year...checking out the people their

mange hilsen

[~steviln]

I`ve actually heard a rumour here in Norway, that they felt their "artistic freedom" impeded, because about a clause in their contract that they "couldn`t insult the man upstair" in their lyrics. I don`t know if it`s any truth in this, they guy who said is was a satanist, so what the heck.

Anyway, it`s sad that they`ve changed to a norwegian label, because us norwegian are rather laidback, and many norwegian bands don`t seem to get their finger out, and release a record. It should also be noted that the norwegian scene isn`t as dominated by "nice boys and girls" as the american appear to be, hehe.

[~Todd Durrant]

Originally posted by steviln
I`ve actually heard a rumour here in Norway, that they felt their "artistic freedom" impeded, because about a clause in their contract that they "couldn`t insult the man upstair" in their lyrics. I don`t know if it`s any truth in this, they guy who said is was a satanist, so what the heck.

Hmm, that's true actually. All ADD contracts do have this clause:

"------- agrees that no lyrics will be included in the album's content which can be considered sexually explicit or offensive to the general market. The album's lyrical content also cannot contain material that could be understood as insulting or blasphemous to persons holding a belief in God. A Different Drum has no desire to promote any material which is considered hateful or distasteful and the label retains the right to exclude any material that may fall into this category."


Call it censorship, limiting, or whatever you'd like, but I own the business, and simply have never had any desire to release music into the market which is insulting, smutty, degrading, or injurious to a large number of people in the world. No ADD release will ever have a "parental advisory" sticker on it or have some mother saying to the local news, "my son killed himself after listening to Band X because it was so...."

Plus, as a person of faith, I respect other people of faith, no matter what their religion. So, material which insults people of faith just isn't something I want on ADD's label. Sure, people believe differently, question God, etc. and that's all fine, and they can express it in a tactful way (which I have no problem with), but it's the blatently insulting stuff that I wish to avoid. If some band decides they just can't resist insulting religious beliefs (rather than just questioning or artistically exploring them), then I'm just not interested.

I've had people tell me before that they think a restriction on certain language (call it "swearing") is juvenile. On the other hand, I believe that using blatent cussing and insulting or grotesque lyrics is actually what's juvenile. I mean, these are artists, and if they can't think of a more interesting way to say what they want to say without throwing out language that's degrading, then maybe they belong in the rap scene :-)

Though I never heard this mentioned as part of the reasoning behind any band leaving A Different Drum's label (for instance, I never heard Echo Image suggest that they felt restricted), I would have to say that if any band felt completely compelled to sing songs that are generally insulting or sexually explicit, or whatever, I think they'd be better off on another label that doesn't mind :-) Oh, and had "Endless Day" been released on ADD, I probably would have suggested that they think of a different cover concept than a school girl with her fingers in her shorts (hehe).

That's me, the prude.
-Todd

[~Human Clone]

Originally posted by Todd Durrant



I've had people tell me before that they think a restriction on certain language (call it "swearing") is juvenile. On the other hand, I believe that using blatent cussing and insulting or grotesque lyrics is actually what's juvenile. I mean, these are artists, and if they can't think of a more interesting way to say what they want to say without throwing out language that's degrading, then maybe they belong in the rap scene :-)



That's me, the prude.
-Todd

I am in agreement with you Todd. I'm not a big fan of profanity myself. I think artists use it for "Shock value". Really there is nothing shocking about it, I think it shows ignorance. I think it is admirable that you stick to your principles.

I think the song Christ????? by Wumpscut is the most ridiculous song I have ever heard. I feel it really is in bad taste. I consistently refuse to play it when it is requested.

I guess I'm prudish as well.

[~steviln]

Oh, and had "Endless Day" been released on ADD, I probably would have suggested that they think of a different cover concept than a school girl with her fingers in her shorts (hehe).

That's me, the prude.
-Todd[/b]


Don`t misunderstand, it wasn`t meant as critizism of ADD, I just stated that norwegians aren`t used to this kind of thing. I didn`t state my own point of view, but the point of view of someone I know.

And i perfectly understand your point! Anyway, american synthpop as such as a genre isn`t know for it`s controversial content, and I don`t think such lyrcis would fit in with the style of music anyway.

Also, I don`t think anyone releasing a "anti christian" record in Utah would live very long, hehe.

But when it comes to the reason the left, my post was mostly a kind of joke, I think that they`re poor impact in Norway may have been the reason. It must have been frustrating for a band of Echo Images caliber, to watch a crappy band like Zuma be succesfull, when they didn`t make a dent.

[~Todd Durrant]

Don't worry steviln, I didn't think you were being critical, or that you have the opinion that profanity should be freely expressed. I was just following up the post with more information and my own explaination of why ADD takes that stance.

People are free to do what they want in their music, but it simply doesn't mean that a private business like ADD has to support it if they choose to go over the top.

Oh yeah, and I agree on that Wumpscut song. I heard it once and thought it was rediculous. It was pure shock value, but didn't shock me...just made me think Wumpscut was totally lame, which I had sort of thought in the first place anyway ;-)


-Todd

[~fondlemywax]

Wow, I thought ADD artists were that goody-goody on their own without any contract clause. Hehe. I shudder to think about the drama over the 'dirty b astard' line in 'too far gone'....

that being said : I personally don't care for blasphemy/cursing in synthpop. It just doesn't sound right. Call me odd, call me godless, whatever.

[~Scar Chemik]

Todd-

I wholeheartedly applaud you in your stance.

I also agree with Human Clone, once you enter the swear world, you are now nothing more than a top 40 wannabe. Its such a sell out. Manson and others have figured this out completely, the more your swear, the more teens will want to buy your records.

Controversy for controversy's sake is not artistic, its exploitation for business means. As Todd says, if you want to approach a subject, any subject, with questions and intelligent discourse, then I have no problem with it. Reverting to gimmicks is amateur and transparent...but it will help you sell records.

Scar

[~veganmaster]

so, I guess you'd kindly allow atheists to release an ADD record, as long as they kept themselves in the closet, eh? how kind of you....

[~Scar Chemik]

Originally posted by veganmaster
so, I guess you'd kindly allow atheists to release an ADD record, as long as they kept themselves in the closet, eh? how kind of you....

I don't think that athiests have anything to worry about since there is another label that would be glad to release them. It's called "Every Other Label in the World Today"

[~conditioner]

This is absolutely ridiculous. What if I'm talking about the death of my father and I want to say "FUCCCKKING life sucks". Now...those lyrics would suck-granted. But just because someone curses in a song that THEY have made doesn't mean they're doing it for shock value. Just because some artists do, doesn't mean every person who does is wrong or tryin to be "controversial". It could mean they just have it in a song. Please. My father was a priest for god's sake and he would call this exactly what it is. Censorship. I'll keep my different drum records I bought, but I ain't buying any more.

oh, and christ¤¤¤¤ is ridiculous

[~jetjaguar15]

I think Todd takes things on a case-by-case basis. it's not a knee-jerk thing for him to reject a release, just because of content. There has been some cursing on some ADD releases - it's not all been squeaky clean.

[~Todd Durrant]

Hehe, I knew somebody would bring up the occassional cussing with Cosmicity. Well, there's a difference between dropping a cuss word, and blurting out an obscenity or profanity like a street pimp. What I'm trying to avoid is the NiN kinda stuff..."I wanna &#$% you like an animal..." That's what seems completely unprofessional and pointless to me, for MY label.

That being said, Mark hasn't liked that clause much, but he's respected it and has pushed as close to the line as he can get, always testing me to see what will finally set off Todd's little flashing red light ;-)

I like to think that no band on the label has ever altered themselves to become more "goody goody" in order to get the deal. Usually, the bands are doing what they want, and if they were a band that really wanted to get dirty, they just wouldn't have signed the contract in the first place...and most likely, I wouldn't have sent them one having heard their stuff in the first place. Ya know what I mean...



Concerning the atheist remark. There ARE atheists and people of all faiths and persuasions on the label. They just all act professional about their art instead of using it to attack other people. If you want to worship Satan, or nobody, or a tree, or whatever, that's fine with me, but I won't market a song that decides to openly ridicule or mock those who don't agree with the band's point of view. Just like I wouldn't market a Christian song that openly taunts or shows blatent disrespect for a Jew, or a Muslim.


Concerning the censorship remark. Call it what you want, but I don't see it as censorship because it's a private business, independently owned. If I don't want to spend MY money manufacturing a product for any particular reason, then it's MY choice. It's not like I'm a government that threatens to arrest you if you cuss when you're angry. It's not like I'm standing up and saying that all labels must ban CD's with certain content. I'm just saying that on my label, we act a certain way. Just like I wouldn't call it an attack on civil rights for you to tell people they can't walk into your house and fling mud around. It's YOUR house, so you decide what you allow on your own private property. That's the difference between "censorship" and "quality control" or "company proceedure". If you want to cuss in your song, then do it freely, but don't expect everybody to agree with you, and don't expect me to pay to promote it with my own money. Seems clear to me, but I'm certain not everybody agrees.

-Todd

[~spi]

I agree with Todd, some people seem to not see the difference between a government censorship and independant choices. As long as that business doesn't have a monopoly on artistic creation and distribution I don't see it as censorship and if it does have a monopoly the government should step in and fix it.

-steve

[~Mike Gjennestad]

somebody decides to stand up and set a standard (regardless of whether you agree with it or not) and they get attacked.

i find it interesting that the very thing that Todd is trying to prevent with his standard about not attacking others for their beliefs is happening to him by the person who is condemning him for doing it.

hmmm...............


gjennmike

[~steviln]

Concerning the censorship remark. Call it what you want, but I don't see it as censorship because it's a private business, independently owned. If I don't want to spend MY money manufacturing a product for any particular reason, then it's MY choice. It's not like I'm a government that threatens to arrest you if you cuss when you're angry. It's not like I'm standing up and saying that all labels must ban CD's with certain content. I'm just saying that on my label, we act a certain way. Just like I wouldn't call it an attack on civil rights for you to tell people they can't walk into your house and fling mud around. It's YOUR house, so you decide what you allow on your own private property. That's the difference between "censorship" and "quality control" or "company proceedure". If you want to cuss in your song, then do it freely, but don't expect everybody to agree with you, and don't expect me to pay to promote it with my own money. Seems clear to me, but I'm certain not everybody agrees.

-Todd[/b]

I think that you leave out a very important point. If say both NBC, CBS and ABC decided to boycot a certain point of view, I would call it "privatized censorship" because that would effectivly stop the message reaching "the masses" almost just as effectivly as had the state banned it.

There is hovewer a whole different story with ADD, because ADD is a small label, and if ADD decides not to release something, it won`t in any way impede that band to release their record and sell it, because every other label in the scene, especially the european ones will publish such material.

The ADD stance is unproblematic, but I think it is more problematic when mayor labels abopt censorship policies.

And by the way, the ADD policy isn`t censorship, I think censorship is preventing someone from speaking up on their situation, and I think ADDs policy is more in the style of quality control.

[~David Vesel]

By definition, a private entity cannot commit censorship because there are always other outlets for expression. I have no issues with Todd's contract policies (even though it's unclear if the first song on my album would have passed muster for ADD) because it's his business. We have more than freedom of speech in America, we have freedom of association.

If a bunch of media companies get together and suppress a news story, that's not censorship, that's collusion, which might also be illegal depending on the circumstances. And actually, if you compare what gets put in the national news against news sites like worldnetdaily.com, it happens all the time.

[~xrobertcmx]

Anyone can say that ADD censor's music. It is a private company that spends it's own money, and will reflect the taste of whoever runs it. If Todd's decisions hurt his sales then ADD goes away, if they don't then that means people (including myself at this point) seem to like what is being produced and are buying the music.

Some of the larger media outlets, such as the major networks and our friends at clear channel have a responsibility to the consumer not to censor what they broadcaste, but that is more of give both sides issue. These groups have an amazing amount of influance on the consumer. We can't really make a comparison here.

[~Human Clone]

Last time I checked the United States of America supports the "Free Enterprise System", thus Todd Durrant or any other business owner has the right to run their business as they see fit.

"Long Live A Different Drum!!!"

[~Todd Durrant]

Originally posted by steviln


I think that you leave out a very important point. If say both NBC, CBS and ABC.... .

Hard to believe I left out an important point... I'm always so "darn" long-winded!

-Todd

PS. That was a joke.

[NoirTech]

It amazes me how many people I meet say...
"that's cencership" for something or the other...
or
"Free speech man!" for this and that.
Unfortunately, they say things like this in the wrong place or time. So I hear someone at a resteraunt cussing up a storm (and here I am with my 5 year old son), and the waiter says to the man to please stop. This guy has the balls to turn to him and say "it's a free country. We have free speech in this country". Needless to say, he got thrown out. There's his free speech. On the sidewalk, in a public place.
So what the hell am I jabbering about? Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there a lot of people out there that think they can do whatever the f they want to wherever they want to do it. Unfortunately (wait, change that...FORTUNATELY) that is not the case. It's common sense.

[~DekaDude]

"in the end norwegians seem to be a little lazy"-I have to disagree with that comment Pristine. I am Norwegian, and we are not f-ing lazy!-& we don't f-ing swear either!