Attention Soft Synth users, Here is the Controller of all Controllers

[~ZuN]

I think this is awesome

http://www.opnlabs.com/products.php

This would be great for playing live

[~pop]

Holy Mother of Keyboards.
I want it!!!!
It would be great for anything. It is better than laptop, sound card,
and controller rig.

[~cliffwalk]

WILL SOME SHOW THE PEOPLE DISSING SOFTSYNTHS THIS THING!!

This is why I don't understand why people are so down about them. Softsynths are just digital synths that live on a standard OS vs. an embedded system.

This has been possible for years but now processors are getting to the point to where all sorts of stuff can live on a beast like this.

AND look at the price point... Hmmm! Somewhere in the neighboorhood of a high-end PC which is cheaper than a high-end Keyboard.

MIDI... is so last week. It will have no usefulness.

Dave

[~NullDevice]

That is a slick-lookin keayboard.

The question is will you have to run an audio host of some kind on it before you can run a VSTi? Or does it have its own host?

Oh, I just had a vision of a realtime Absynth rig. Oh, oh baby...

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by cliffwalk


MIDI... is so last week. It will have no usefulness.

Dave

Personally I doubt that.

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ZuN


Personally I doubt that.

You may be right. I just see the transmission happening over IP and a more expansive protocol being required that still remains machine independant but allows a particular machine to expose itself better. SysEx wont cut it.

Dave

[~MidiRipper]

That is a cool looking unit. I wonder how big the [computer] keyboard is?

[Midi dead] I don't think anytime soon, although there has been talk about that for ages. I'd like to see them utilize those 2 (3?) free pins for crying out loud! Geez, instead of having those free pins, they should've made a couple extra ones and had the midi in and out on one cable.

'Ripper

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by cliffwalk


You may be right. I just see the transmission happening over IP and a more expansive protocol being required that still remains machine independant but allows a particular machine to expose itself better. SysEx wont cut it.

Dave

Don't you think transmission over IP would be overkill? I mean midi transmits I beleive at around 31 kbaud or so, not to sure on that but around there, you really aren't pumping extreme amounts of data that would reguire transmission over IP, Also wasn't the idea of SysEx to be able to change settings in a synth that cannot be accessed by any other means??

Originally posted by MidiRipper
That is a cool looking unit. I wonder how big the [computer] keyboard is?
'Ripper

I would think maybe about the size of a Laptop Keyboard.

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ZuN


Don't you think transmission over IP would be overkill? I mean midi transmits I beleive at around 31 kbaud or so, not to sure on that but around there, you really aren't pumping extreme amounts of data that would reguire transmission over IP, Also wasn't the idea of SysEx to be able to change settings in a synth that cannot be accessed by any other means??

I don't see it as overkill, it's not really a bandwidth thing, it's a standardization thing. As for SYSEX, yes, that's what its for, but it sort of sucks. MIDI was agreed upon way before the digital world started thinking object-oriented and modular. SO, the whole concept for MIDI was to get as many things agreed upon to be the same from synth to synth so they could create code for it.

Cumbersome when by removing that layer and just exposing the modifiers to be changed in real time, any time, any way, is both possible, more powerful, and infinitily more simplistic...

It SEEMS like the route that I would go but they may go off and invent something smarter.

Dave

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by cliffwalk


Cumbersome when by removing that layer and just exposing the modifiers to be changed in real time, any time, any way, is both possible, more powerful, and infinitily more simplistic...


Dave

You sort of lost me here.. but cant you do that by assigning Midi cc's??

[~pop]

To Null....
There are over 20 products that host vsti/vst without using a sequencer program.

Others about Midi over 100meg ethernet
Midi on Lan is old news. Look for a product called, "Midi over Lan."
You can sync multiple IP PC together without using midi.

[~binaryzero]

this thing has me very excited since it would probably cost me more to put all that ¤¤¤¤ into a dedicated pc and then i couldn't take it to shows.

at least with it using standard laptop components in it, one could upgrade the sucker after a few years if needed.

[~ZuN]

POP isn't mLAN over Firewire?? and not ethernet?
And it still transmits Midi Data

[~pop]

Yamaha owns the copyright name "MLAN."
There is a new prouct out called "Midi Over Lan" that can sync PCs over LAN with out using HUBI and midi interfaces.

Midi is legacy architecture THAT CAN'T GO AWAY.....
If it goes away, 99.999999999999999999% of machines made in past 20 years will be useless. New protocol is always going to merge with the old.

[~ZuN]

I gotcha, thats interesting, but it still Transmits Midi data which is what Cliff is debating.

[~Hajas]

Hey, this gear already exist? and the price is really under $2000?

Wow, the price isn't much for all that this machine can make.

It's so good that is hard to believe.

Freddy

[~ZuN]

that $2000 is just for the base unit, I think it goes up to $5000 for all the bells and whistles

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ZuN
I gotcha, thats interesting, but it still Transmits Midi data which is what Cliff is debating.

You're right. I'm not talking about MIDI over the LAN, I'm talking about Networked VSTi hosts, essentially...

Here's the problem, though... Ethernet doesn't have QOS (Quality of Service) guarantees unless you use a switch. (Hub wouldn't cut it) The biggest requirement would be, at minimum, an 8 KHz sync....

Blah, blah, blah... I'm just speculating... what I'm excited about is that there's a new Architecture for electronic music that's going to fall together over the next 5 years which just gives me a HUGE erection.

I mean... soundesigners for Music Theatre, Installation Art, BASICALLY ANYTHING Multi-media, etc... all sorts of really sexy applications that will be blowing people onto their asses. What's cool is that all of the on-the-fly rendering we're seeing readily available in Audio is also happening only slightly slower in Video...

Our kids are going to be extremely entertained.

Dave

[~pop]

Originally posted by cliffwalk


You're right. I'm not talking about MIDI over the LAN, I'm talking about Networked VSTi hosts, essentially...



Those came out last year....

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by pop


Those came out last year....

Wow... well I figured as much. I wonder if someone has a master architecture in mind, I've been looking around and can't find something standards-based.

Dave

[~David Vesel]

I think MIDI software will go away before MIDI hardware. When you run softsynths, you're still using MIDI to control them, even if it's only internally.

The trend I'm seeing is MIDI over other cables. There was a Roland rackmount unit that came out last year that used USB for MIDI. My 8x8 MIDI interface uses USB between the computer and interface. The only big problem with MIDI is speed. At one instruction per microsecond, it doesn't take much to get audibly detectable latency.

[~digitalia]

i saw this thing at NAMM and wasnt too impressed
it's too big and clunky

im more looking forward to getting a Powerbook, loading it up with software and using and additional USB/MIDI keyboard if i need to
much smaller and the keyboard can be added at any time

sorry, i dont see this thing getting too far

d

[~pop]

Originally posted by David Vesel
I think MIDI software will go away before MIDI hardware. When you run softsynths, you're still using MIDI to control them, even if it's only internally.

The trend I'm seeing is MIDI over other cables. There was a Roland rackmount unit that came out last year that used USB for MIDI. My 8x8 MIDI interface uses USB between the computer and interface. The only big problem with MIDI is speed. At one instruction per microsecond, it doesn't take much to get audibly detectable latency.

Software isn't against you. Wow... sometimes, I wonder about you. Softysynths are not coming to ST.LOUIS to take your synthpop stardom from your town....
Gee.... If you don't like it, don't use it. Many of us use softsynths and we got great results. MLAN is not a trend. USB on keyboard is not a trend. Linking softsynths over ethernet isn't a trend. They have been happening for few years.

Problem with midi is not latency!!! It is data throughput...
Midi was originally designed to handle 0-127volume, 0-127pan, 45 controller assignments include wheel, bend, velocity, aftertouch,
and many others..... ON/OFF NOTE information and 0-127 of 0and1 aren't BIG DATA..... There is a reason, WHY they never expanded more than 16 channels per PORT, because that's limit before data will get jamed.
In the future, people want to able to transfer samples over fly,
and rackmount units that are expandable to other external units
without opening the unit, so you can rack your network that shares central ROM/SAMPLES.
That's why new trend started... NOT CONTROLLER data information is getting latency..
If you are getting latency, it is your driver or software, or you didn't setup your system correctly, or your midi interface might be dying.

Things don't go away that fast....Just like vinyls. Some people
will keep on using vinyls, so don't worry or panic...

[~Quixote Chapter]

Originally posted by digitalia
im more looking forward to getting a Powerbook, loading it up with software and using and additional USB/MIDI keyboard if i need to
much smaller and the keyboard can be added at any time

sorry, i dont see this thing getting too far

d

No doubt! The thing does look cool, but my ibook, mbox, and oxygen8 are just as capable and all fit into my backpack.

-kevin

[~fractured]

Hey all... I think what Dave is looking for is whatever will replace Steinberg's VST Link. They are using 1 bit of a channel on a digital audio connection between machines to share power for a big networked music LAN. I know that there is going to be good stuff happening in the near future with M-LAN, but we all need to wait and see what pans out.
I don't think we will see any end to our friend, M1D1, anytime soon. I do think there is much left to do there. This synth is as much computer as it is synthesizer. So far it is just a Windows machine with a very cool case and some great, integrated controllers. We'll see what happens by the time it comes out.
In my opinion, the problem with soft synths has been the fact that you never know what hardware is going to be there running the programs once the end user gets them. People use anything from garbage Soundblasters on Dell machines to Lynx cards with Apogee converters on a G4 dual 1gHz.
This board has the advantage of being an excellently spec'ed out PC, but until the synths are coded specifically for the machine, you are still leaving a little more to chance than in a "hardware" synth. Those things may be software, but they are in a highly customize hardware environment.

-fractured
http://www.black-chamber.com