Depeche Mode are better without Alan!!!

[~Gahan_Man]

Well ALEAST as good! I mean OWILM,Surrender and Ultra and
---------
and Exciter are just great! I think they are all amazing albums with (and songs refering to OWILM) more depth(esp Exciter) then that of any other DM records.

It really is beyond me how ppl can say there not as good anymore..no there not! They are ¤¤¤¤¤in better!

Dont get me wrong I love all DM records even Speak & Spell and A Broken Frame. I mean I do LOVE all the DM records....but the later ones are even better!

[~Bornslippy]

I do luv Exciter(maybe I'm getting old l.o.l), and Ultra...

But what ever what ever they do, pls dont get rid of Andy "clap" FLetcher, boy that dude is talented, I mean no body else claps like that....:)

[7red7]

DM are by far (not) better without Alan...Alan can play circles around Vince, Martin, and everyone else involved in the band ove the years...Sorry, Alan was always the better musician...Hence, he played all of the complicated synth riffs on stage and in the studio...

Not to take away from my boy Mart though, he's a lyrical genuis, and a great musician, but a better keyboard player, never...It's almost as if DM are just maiking experimental songs to please themselves...It's like Kessler said...Take a look at Soundscan Charts...DM 's album sales overall have dropped ramatically...Aside from a brief one month stint with Dream On, nothing from Exciter even got airplay here in California...

All in all, it's like I said it a thousand times, DM isn't the same since Alan's departure...Look I'll break it down...

Speak and Spell era DM= The same cheesy synthpop/new wave sound about fifteen bands did before and better than DM were already doing it...

DM didn't devolope anything original with Vince, think I'm lying...Check B-Movie, Visage, Ultravox, Human League OMD...All were around before DM and musically surpassed them at the time...

Skip ahead to 1983 and Construction Time Again...Now this is the beginning of DM...Original sounds, new blood carrying over into the music with Alan's input, and yes notice he penned three of the what 8 songs of the album...Not bad for the new guy...

The rest as we all know is history...DM became household names after that one...

Sorry I luv's my DM with Alan, no offense, I just have to defend him...:)

DAN

[~A04]

I agree with 7red7 on this one. I heard the demo version of Shake the Disease that Martin had come up with and it was good, but Alan was the arranger and sound manipulator that defined DM for the most part.

I bought Exciter for no other reason than that it was DM (no airplay to speak of where I am), but I definitely feel that they took a major dive when Alan left min terms of musical growth and complexity.

As an aside, I was a little let down when I read an interview with Alan where he stated that he doesn't follow the synth scene much. Whatever.

[7red7]

Originally posted by A04
I agree with 7red7 on this one. I heard the demo version of Shake the Disease that Martin had come up with and it was good, but Alan was the arranger and sound manipulator that defined DM for the most part.

I bought Exciter for no other reason than that it was DM (no airplay to speak of where I am), but I definitely feel that they took a major dive when Alan left min terms of musical growth and complexity.

As an aside, I was a little let down when I read an interview with Alan where he stated that he doesn't follow the synth scene much. Whatever.

Thanks A04 I appreciate the support...And Gahan Man I don't mean to upset the mood of your thread either far from it...It's like I said, you'll have to forgive me, I grew up watching DM with Alan and making musical history...They just lost a bit of their ooomph over the last two records...You know what though, I'm really optomistic though and I haven't written them off...I'm looking foward to both Mart, and Dave's solo albums, as well as give anything else DM release an honest and open listen :)

DAN

[~pop]

Recoil is more advance in experimentation than DM.
DM is pop band and write standard pop music.
They just have cool sounds and kick ass production.
You can hear Alan has very concept than any of the DM
memebers when you listen to Recoil.

[~cliffwalk]

My interest in DM died when Alan left. I haven't heard one song from them that even sparks a hint of interest. I love Dave's voice and I love Martin's songwriting...... but what drew me into their music were sounds they were making. That was Alan. Alan and Martin had a chemistry that really worked nicely.

Recoil is cool stuff. Imaginative as all hell.

By the way: "Construction Time Again".... By far underrated as an album. A lot of people (including the members of DM) think that they made their big transition with Black Celebration. I disagree, I think it started with CTA, I really do... some great lyrical content.

As for Clarke's contribution... I'm glad he formed that band. I give him that. But I don't think Vince found himself musically until Yazoo.

Dave

[7red7]

Originally posted by cliffwalk
By the way: "Construction Time Again".... By far underrated as an album. A lot of people (including the members of DM) think that they made their big transition with Black Celebration. I disagree, I think it started with CTA, I really do... some great lyrical content.

Dave


Oh I agree completely here with you Dave...Construction Time Again was a whole new sound for DM, and it was the first fusing of Alan and Martin's songwriting...I just think that when that album came out, DM was taken to a whole new level and was from that point poised to progress as they did with their albums that followed...With Alan, every album just got better and better :)

DAN

[~A04]

Originally posted by 7red7


I'm looking foward to both Mart, and Dave's solo albums, as well as give anything else DM release an honest and open listen :)

DAN

Rumor has it (and my source is pretty good) that the Dave solo album will not be released (my source said "deemed not good enough for release"). Actually, I didn't even know that it was in the works, so I didn't really know what to make of the info. I guess if it comes out, I'll hear what people say about it first.

[7red7]

Okay now thats a first for me...I've heard nothing about it not coming out, but that does spark some interest...That would be kinda funny if thats true :)

[~Hajas]

I don't think that.

for me DM lost a big talent losing Alan, after he left all the instrumental are so empty.

the music still good off course, because Martin that write them all, but the keyboard melodies and synths are very poor compared with the past albums with Alan.

That's my opinion, aside I still love DM, with or without Alan.

Freddy

[~gordonctrl]

DM are far worse off without Alan W. Martin is a great songwriter, but Alan is head and shoulders above him as a musician. It's a damn shame that Mute never really pushed Recoil, they had a sort of reactive marketing to his records.

I am going to give the new DM a good listen, like I have the last few, But they have been going downhill for a good spell now.

and for god sakes lose the soul singers
brad

[~Gahan_Man]

I dont give a rats ass what any one says the later DM albums are wicked.

As for album sales...Ultra sold 4 million and Exciter sold 3.1 million so somebody must still like them.

I do agree Alan did sum kick ass things with that band. There is no lying about it. But I Still think they are doing better stuff now.

TO bad that most DM fans are in it for nostalgic reasons...while I love them cause im really into what they're doing right now. Not for what they did 15 yrs ago(even though I still love there old stufff).

[~Dan1boy]

Originally posted by Gahan_Man
[b]I dont give a rats ass what any one says the later DM albums are wicked.b>


It looks like EGN has found its new Joel.

[~gordonctrl]

Originally posted by Gahan_Man
I dont give a rats ass what any one says the later DM albums are wicked.

As for album sales...Ultra sold 4 million and Exciter sold 3.1 million so somebody must still like them.

I do agree Alan did sum kick ass things with that band. There is no lying about it. But I Still think they are doing better stuff now.

TO bad that most DM fans are in it for nostalgic reasons...while I love them cause im really into what they're doing right now. Not for what they did 15 yrs ago(even though I still love there old stufff).


well nostalgia isn't what it used to be......


brad

[~Hajas]

To a band like DM, sell 4 or 5 million copies isn't difficult, because they must have about 30 millions of fans in the world.

Bands like DM, U2 and others, can put the worst CD ever made to sell that all will be sold, because we fans will buy anyway, doesn't matter what the others say. Am I wrong? :)

I like the last 2 albums, specially Ultra, but musically arrangement (instrumental) they are below the quality of the few pasts.

Off course the first ones are worst than the new ones in INSTRUMENTAL part, aside I like them.

I think that alan lead the instruments to use in the studio, and after he left, they don't have a right direction to follow, is like under full order by the producer.

If they are a novice band, that's ok, but they are the Depeche Mode, that create a own style, and really changed music view for last 2 decades.

I think that anyone today have DM in his top 10 bands, doesn't matter if you like synth or heavy metal. The Sepultura's guys love DM for exemple.

They must lead, and not follow anyone, that's what I think is the big difference.

Ultra still electronic, but almost anyone keyoboard melodies or strings. On Exciter they almost forgot the electronic instruments, request a brazillian percusionist to help them, doing like an Electronic Bossa Nova? I really don't understand what they try to do.

I like Exciter, but isn't an Depeche Mode style album, is like DM playing in another style.

Ultra is great, aside the poor instrumentation, have fantastic songs there.

And I'm not been nostalgic , I love the last DVD, and I bought the albums, but exist many bands today that done a far better albums than DM, like Mesh for exemple.

That dissappoint any fan... :(

Freddy

[~vleon101]

Ahh the Depeche Mode fans.. so loyal.. so great.. to me, depeche mode is like that first girlfriend you never really stop thinking abut even though you know things have dramatically changed in the 10 years since you saw her last...

ok maybe not that pathetic, but you know what i mean...

[~schalana101]

Alright, I have a question for everyone. You guys say that Depeche Mode isn't any good without Alan, but how many of you like A Broken Frame? Wasn't that recorded without Alan?

I understand that it was released in '82, but still it was just the three of them.

[~cliffwalk]

No, I do not like it Sam I am. Sold that CD back after buying it.

Lyrics were starting to improve at that point. That's about all I can say.

Dave

[~Gahan_Man]

I love ABF..its great and yes it was made with out Alan,its much better then S & S..but I love that album to!

[~hippychick]

BTW does anybody know if Alan reads these boards? He does surf the net and I heard about this website from recoil.co.uk. Just a thought...

[~skylla]

heh, the recoil-site was how i found the egn too.

i know fans can post links, but since alan and his wife - as far as i know - are the actual webmasters of the recoil-site, i think there's a good chance he's been here. perhaps you should ask him... it'd be interesting to know.

btw, didn't egn do an interview with alan? i can't remember if it was here i saw it or some other site i didn't expect an interview with alan to appear. anyway, if it was in fact here i saw the interview, i'm almost certain he's been here to check the article and the site out.

[~hippychick]

I don't remember seeing an article here, but maybe someone else does - I've only been online since June. I figure Alan probably reads alot of boards & stuff on the net, info pertaining to him, etc. Whatever. Go Alan, you rock!

[~cliffwalk]

http://www.electrogarden.com/features/recoil/

Yup... there's one here.

As for Alan... I'm sure he does when time allows... there's people lurking on this site that we'd be surprised about... that i can almost guarantee, it's the nature of the net.

dave

[7red7]

Originally posted by schalana101
Alright, I have a question for everyone. You guys say that Depeche Mode isn't any good without Alan, but how many of you like A Broken Frame? Wasn't that recorded without Alan?

I understand that it was released in '82, but still it was just the three of them.


Truth be told up until Exciter came out, it has always been my least favorite album, and to this day have never bought it...Everything but it and Exciter...Even Speak And Spell is a bit too excessive on the queso at times for me...Vince did far better work after his days in DM, and DM did their best work while they had Alan contributing to the music...

[~HyperMode]

Well, I'm glad the guys didn't throw in the towel when Charlie ( Alan ) left. But as good as SOFAD was it would have been interesting to hear how Ultra came out with Alan still in the band. I'm still not happy that Alan is gone. In the 1990 interview with Dave and Martin, they admit they are all like a family. And i agree. When i heard Alan was leaving I felt like a family member died. And it just feels like DM is still missing something without Alan. Plus I REALLY don't like seeing that other guy behind the keyboard (even though he's good). But I like seeing DM using Christian on the drums. In the past I didn't really care if DM had a drummer before. But it makes DM's music sound even better. Plus having Martin playing more guitar is really cool too. But I'll never say that DM is better without Alan....It's a family of four missing one of it's own. Just my .02

gahan_man,

That's not true, Alan was hired when DM was making "A Broken Frame". He just wasn't advertised as a band member yet. But he was around for that album. Half way through the tour Alan played keys. But they didn't annouce him as a full fledged member til later.

[~arronc]

According to the Steve Mallins DM Biography, Alan Wilder did not play on the Broken Frame studio sessions, although he had been hired by that time, he was not invited to the studio.

Also just to add, it seems unlikely that alan was resposible for the sound of construction time : whenever I see/read interviews about this stuff, its always garth jones/daniel miller talking about early sampling and sound dessign stuff.

Its a sad but true fact that DM started off as Daniel Millers pupputs, a replacement for the fictional group Silicon Teens.

I love DM records, and the songs, and what they became, but the way Alan's presence/non presence is taken so seriously is beyond me.

The early records that came out using sampling all had a childish crassness to them them that is intreguing but childlike. I remeber those days fondly, but wouldnt buy a record now that sounded like that.

[~ZuN]

Hmm I see it like this

Martin + Alan = Excellent (Sound & Lyrics)

Alan - Martin = Great (Sound)

Martin - Alan = Great (Lyrically)

For me those 2 together make a wining combination, personally I think they compliment each other.

I think its naive when people say "oh wasn't Martin in Alan's band" cos without Martins Lyrics and Songs I think we would have missed out on a lot of songs that hit close to home. I don't think I have heard a Recoil song that I could relate to as much as a DM song also considering Recoil is more of an Experimental type sound, but that's just me.

[~skylla]

i am one of those who thinks there's a huge difference between dm with and without alan and much prefers recoil to post alan dm. however, i like zun's point with a minor adjustment. lyrically i think recoil is just as great as martins dm-lyrics... just listen to a track like want from the liquid-album. instead of lyrics i would put sing-along ability/melody into the equation.

the interesting thing about zun's post in my opinion is that it illustrates the differences between post-alan dm and recoil. we could discuss who's best - recoil or post-alan dm - until the end of time, but what it really boils down to is that if you primarily liked dm for the melodies you will probably still be a dm-fan, and if you liked dm for the sound and the dark mood you will probably prefer recoil to post-alan dm. i think zun's post illustrates that quite nicely.

[~synth-master]

DM suck without Alan Wilder.........the band that once on the top of the world for me is now just another band. Alan was the brain behind the music. Now the music is plain and without any soul and meaning. The sounds of Music for the Masses and Violator will be missed geatly by me. I do agree that DM has matured alot in the past decade in many areas like vocals and lyrics but the music SUCKS...............The true DM died when Alan left the band.

[~HyperMode]

I wouldn't go as far as to say DM sucks without Alan, but I think that they are relying on other people in the studio to take the place of Alan. So in a way Dm is really re-defining themsleves, a starting over so to speak. And just for the record i have a book that was done on DM in 1990 showing their history for their first 10 years together, and Alan may not have played any parts in the studio during the making of ABF he was infact hired but just not announed as a memeber. DM was still seeing if he would fit in. And with Alan's classical piano background he did fill in late in the ABF tour. Then during the making of CTA he was announced as a member and helped reshape Martins lyrics and sound. At that time the whole band, even other Synth bands were all experimenting with new sampling because Synths became more advanced and drum machines started actually sounding like real drums instead of Atari video games..lol.

[~synth-master]

maybe I was a bit harsh as to saying that they suck now (considering they have and will always remain one of my favorate bands) , but I really loved DM when Alan was with them. To tell you the truth, the only reason I bought the last few albums (especially Exciter is because it was DM not because I thought it was badass). Also, I accually don't care much for DM's first few albums Speak and Spell or A broken Frame. My favorate DM albums in order are Violator, Music for the Masses, Black Celebration, and Some Great Rewards which all include Alan.
I much rather trade Andrew Flecher for the return of Alan Wilder.... Andrew is not a very good musican at all.
Shervin

[~cliffwalk]

After listening to Exciter a few times I can hear that they are definately trying to reinvent their sound... that's a tall order considering how protean of a role Alan had in what it was.

Listening to Martin's solo stuff I can sort of get a feel for what they like. I think Martin is trying to craft an approach that gels with Dave's more rock/blues characteristics so that he can exploit that more.

Right now, I don't think it's working that well. My biggest complaint right now is that it all sounds really forced... I hear a maturity in Dave's voice despite the fact that it's damaged good. Voices do heal even when they are badly damaged. Martin's voice is losing its high range big time but that comes with age. He used to have a really sweet tenor range and his latest stuff doesn't go much higher than a note or two above middle C.

Also, mix that with the fact that they are all at an age where their life experiences are totally different. They have a more "mature" viewpoint on the world and don't seem as caught up in the same rather shallow themes. (Relative shallowness.. I mean, how far can a person dig into their fear of intimacy before they start to sound like a Gothy-George-Contanza?)

The current stuff, I'm disappointed with... I'll agree that it's smattered with some great ideas but overall I'm not quite feeling their new "Sound" yet... If they are to comeback as a band I think that they really need to concentrate on what they want to be and continue down the path they've already blazed. There's probasbly a really cool sound at the end of the rainbow...

Dave

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by cliffwalk

Right now, I don't think it's working that well. My biggest complaint right now is that it all sounds really forced... I hear a maturity in Dave's voice despite the fact that it's damaged good. Voices do heal even when they are badly damaged. Martin's voice is losing its high range big time but that comes with age. He used to have a really sweet tenor range and his latest stuff doesn't go much higher than a note or two above middle C.


Man you have Golden Ears, I never noticed Martin was loosing his High Range, I thought he sang like that because thats how the Vocal Melody goes to the song, not because of vocal limitations. ;)

[Electroswank]

Raf - why do you even bother wasteing your time?
As I have found out by all the random and senseless lashings I got - It's a known fact that Cliffwalk knows everything there is to know about vocals and singing EVER! Don't dare say different. :)

Does it really matter If DM is better with or without Alan? Will a wide protest bring Alan back? and if he does come back will it be all that you longed for? Is it your band to decide? there are going to be people who prefer Alan in the band, and some who won't... having a debate like this is purely based on preferences and tastes to which everyone has thier own unique opinon on.

*sigh*
Everyone really has lost thier sense of humor on this board, haven't they?

[~KissTheStar]

Eh, you know I like Exciter. It's not my favorite album but there are some good songs on it. There is always nit-picking among major fans. I like everyone here own every DM album and the sound is just different, not better or worse. Just my opinion. It's more adult contemporary than many would like maybe? Haven't listened to the new Gore cover album yet. So I can't comment.

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ElectroSwank

*sigh*
Everyone really has lost thier sense of humor on this board, haven't they?

Not everyone but apparently you.

Dave

[~ZuN]

Well i thought he sounded good singing Comatose from their last studio Album Exciter in which he sang in the higher registers, nothing sounded forced to my ears, if I put on Violator he doesn't sing in the higher registers. I think it all depends on the songs he's writing, Hell when i saw them on this last tour he sang Sister of Night in the higher range and It Doesn't Matter Two without a problem. But like you said I'm not Trained to pick up on these things and make an educated evaluation from a recording. I guess for me I would have to hear him do a series of Vocal exercises in the higher octaves to make that determination, but thats me :(

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ZuN
Well i thought he sounded good singing Comatose from their last studio Album Exciter in which he sang in the higher registers, nothing sounded forced to my ears, if I put on Violator he doesn't sing in the higher registers. I think it all depends on the songs he's writing, Hell when i saw them on this last tour he sang Sister of Night in the higher range and It Doesn't Matter Two without a problem. But like you said I'm not Trained to pick up on these things and make an educated evaluation from a recording. I guess for me I would have to hear him do a series of Vocal exercises in the higher octaves to make that determination, but thats me :(

Fine, his range is exactly as it was when he was 25. I concede, this is silly.

dave

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by cliffwalk


Fine, his range is exactly as it was when he was 25. I concede, this is silly.

dave

Sorry I never said his voice was exactly as it was when he was 25, all I pointed out was that he sounded like he had no problems singing in the higher octaves.

[~chriswdc]

Originally posted by ZuN
[b]Well i thought he sounded good singing Comatose from their last studio Album Exciter in which he sang in the higher registers, nothing sounded forced to my ears, if I put on Violator he doesn't sing in the higher registers. I think it all depends on the songs he's writing, Hell when i saw them on this last tour he sang Sister of Night in the higher range and It Doesn't Matter Two without a problem. But like you said I'm not Trained to pick up on these things and make an educated evaluation from a recording.b>

I think that is a fair response. I really have not noticed a significant loss of range either. It is inevitable that he will lose some comfort with the higher register at some point, however I did not detect that on Exciter or either of the two Exciter shows I went to in Chicago and Baltimore.

One guy that really surprises me is Paul McCartney (off topic, thanks I know). I watched his most recent concert DVD (Back in the US??) and was impressed with the retention of his range..sounded really nice.

Obviously, everyone does not react to aging the same way.

[~ZuN]

Originally posted by chriswdc

One guy that really surprises me is Paul McCartney (off topic, thanks I know). I watched his most recent concert DVD (Back in the US??) and was impressed with the retention of his range..sounded really nice.


Totally agree, he amazed me!!

Im a big Beatles fan :)

[~KissTheStar]

Do you think that Martin Gore likes bananas in his cereal?

[Electroswank]

Originally posted by cliffwalk
Not everyone but apparently you.
Dave

ooh you sure did tell me - and that only took you 9 minutes and 34 seconds?

LOL @ this ridiculous banter and how easily some words on a screen makes people angry :)


Anna

PS don't know about Martin, but i love bananas in my cereal!

[~chriswdc]

Originally posted by catslastdance
Do you think that Martin Gore likes bananas in his cereal?

No, but Alan does.

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by ElectroSwank


ooh you sure did tell me - and that only took you 9 minutes and 34 seconds?

LOL @ this ridiculous banter and how easily some words on a screen makes people angry :)


Anna

PS don't know about Martin, but i love bananas in my cereal!

:( wow, you know what... whatever... being mean spirited is your problem, not mine.

dave

[~HyperMode]

synth_master,
Yoy are definately right that Dm was better when Alan was there I think. But I'm a DM fan and I will continue to buy anything they put out. When I heard the demo's for Exciter i said" oh no, come on guys" that was my first reaction. Then I said" dammit, they need Alan back". SOFAD was so cutting edge for a band like DM it just would have been cool to see what Ultra would have sounded like if Alan was doing the studio work. The man is brilliant. You can watch any live show, and you can see him playing atleast 2 melody parts at any given time. His hands are constantly moving. But I have to admit this though...When DM came to Philly and Alan was playing drums Martin was also playing his azz off on the keys. It surprised me he was that good. I mean i was sitting at a perfect angle to watch him play and i couldn't believe all the melody parts he was playing. But as weak as Exciter might have been it's amazing how they make the sounds come to life when they do them live. I've watch "One Night In Paris" and they played great together. All the songs sounded great. I just wish they did more of their older songs. But I really think they choose songs where Martin could play guitar more. I mean in only 2 songs he played keys. I just know Ultra and Exciter would have been real cutting edge stuff if "SLICK" was still there. But DM always moves on and adapts, thats why they've been around since '81. God bless um.

[~WillC]

DM is NOT better without Alan. As a matter of fact there is nothing exciting about "Exciter". One of there worst albums to date. So bad i didn't even buy it or go to there concert in protest.

[~synth-master]

Originally posted by WillC
DM is NOT better without Alan. As a matter of fact there is nothing exciting about "Exciter". One of there worst albums to date. So bad i didn't even buy it or go to there concert in protest.

LOL.........
definatly one of DM's worst albums to date......but missing the tour because of it.
Song writting was great, although not as good as Ultra and so were the vocals, but the album is missing so much juice..........There is not an upbeat track on this album, not to forget the plain synth lines. When I listen to music, I like to hear many different experimental sounds that grab your attention. Exciter music was all very same sounding.
shervin

[~platformone]

DM was better with alan.. I suppose in time - Martin will write better songs - I mean everything is cyclical and all... ultra and Exciter are just kinda "there" compared to everything else... - alans talent in the studio - sorely missed.

- the rest of the band ( martin and Dave) have thier places and all - and there's a lot they do - but Alans leaving is a loss.

I didn't buy exciter either... I'll probably get it used in a year or so...

[~intro]

Now now children...

My take on this. I think Depeche have gone downhill since Alan left. Ultra had a few decent songs on it. Exciter had one (Dream On) and the rest was absolute crap. But my complaint isn't the sound, it's the songwriting. I think, from a production standpoint, DM and the new Gore solo stuff sound fantastic. I just don't like the songs. I think Martin has lost his touch.

Alan... DM was better with him. But if he ever goes back to DM, I will track him down and beat him with a big ¤¤¤¤ing stick. Recoil is far more interesting and exciting than Depeche Mode ever was.

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[~ultrasynthetic]

You're right about Recoil Mark and about Alan if he were to go join DM again. That would be a huge step back for him creatively.
If Alan had been with them for Exciter i probably would not be using that album as a coaster. Anyway, like all good things DM must come to an end at some point (i think they did with exciter)... i just wish they weren't running it into the ground.

[~ZuN]

If Alan does go back to DM he better bring his other half, Flood.

I think thats the other part of the equation people seem to forget.

[~amyagogo]

Gee, i don't know what's more relevant and interesting...this thread or the battle of Taco Bell and Del Taco... :p

Lighten up, kids, it's just music...and if i'm not mistaken, part of the interest in being a musician is to EVOLVE and EXPERIMENT...Alan moved on, Dave and Martin made solo cds, Fletch probably bought a pair of boxers in a color that he normally wouldn't...big deal...just appreciate the fact that they are growing as artists. And i would imagine their efforts are for themselves...not for any of us ;)

[~Dan1boy]

Well put, Amy.

Although, personally, I enjoyed the El Pollo Loco thread best.

[~ultrasynthetic]

I wouldnt be so nonchalant about music being "just music". Music is a very important part of life and people love to chitchat about the many intricacies within music and who is behind it. That's what all these threads and posts are for...expressing opinions, hopefully in a diplomatic manner as not to insult or be combative to other members.
Anyway. Depeche Mode will always be a favorite of mine. I just didn't like Exciter. As for Alan Wilder, he was great and added an excellent element to an already solid band. It seems to me that with age all artists change their style and usually that’s in a more mellow direction. Both Ultra and Exciter are pretty tame in my opinion. Well at least we can all agree to disagree. That is the great thing about Electrogarden, to find out what people like and dislike and why.

[~ERIC31]

No way. DM was better with Alan. As usual, it is not only the musicianship he brought to the table. The chemistry between those 4 guys is what made DM great and those CDs with them so good. Take away one of those ingredients and it's not the same and never will be. When Alan left and Dave got into his rock n roll drug addition phase, DM ceased to be of interest to me. That's my .02 cents..............Right now, I'm listening to VIOLATOR, the last great DM CD (IMHO).

[~Eldritch]

I agree with whomever who wrote that the main problem with Exciter was Martin's songwriting. It's not a bad album by any means, but songs like Shine, Sweetest Condition, Dead Of Night and I Am You just recycle past glories. And I Feel Loved is the blandest thing they've ever done. If Alan was around, he would have injected some desperately needed drama and power into I Am You and The Dead Of Night, but even he would ahve been powerless with many of the other songs. And on the other hand, I doubt that Alan could have produced Dream On and When The Body Speaks as subtly and brilliantle than Mark bell did.

I still DM. They are my favourite band of all time, but by their standards Exciter was merely so-so.

[~Visage-the-toy]

DM was a lot better with Alan.. based on the quality of the last 2 albums it's clear that Mr. Wilder played a huge part in the sound of the album and probably did most of the programming and sampling. A lot of people are saying the Martin's Counterfeit 2 lacks excellent programming while Recoil's albums are lush & full sounding... so this may be further proof of this. All the best to DM but they are not as good as they were in the mid 1980's.

[~Churchill]

Originally posted by A04
I agree with 7red7 on this one. I heard the demo version of Shake the Disease that Martin had come up with and it was good, but Alan was the arranger and sound manipulator that defined DM for the most part.

I bought Exciter for no other reason than that it was DM (no airplay to speak of where I am), but I definitely feel that they took a major dive when Alan left min terms of musical growth and complexity.

As an aside, I was a little let down when I read an interview with Alan where he stated that he doesn't follow the synth scene much. Whatever.

I agree with you! Ultra and Exciter are marked by lots of bleeps and noisy sounds but there's a bit a lack of musical arrangements... something Alan Wilder was very good at. It's not a coincidence that from all solo-projects of DM-members, Recoil's the most complex and in my eyes the best of them...