Talk me (Cosmicity) out of a Virus!

[~cosmicity]

Here's the situation:

I'm updating my studio. I want a new Virtual Analog. I can't make up my mind.

Key Features I'm Looking For:
FRIENDLY USER INTERFACE / Ease of Use
Spacey / Sci-Fi / Synthy Sounds with internal effects
The KEY is spacey. I'm just starting a new space-themed album.

I already have and love these items:
Novation Supernova I
Clavia Nord Lead I
Korg Triton
Electribe ER-1

I bought and am now returning an Oberheim OB-12. It was too glitchy and too much work to use. (It did sound good, though.) Also, I'm selling off my ASR-10 (I use Reason for drums now) and my Proteus 2000 (the Triton covers the same ground better.) Let me know if you want either. Getting back to the point:

MY CURRENT TOP CHOICE IS A VIRUS B! I'd get a C, but the differences between that and the B aren't worth the extra money. But the thing is, I don't wanna get a Virus. That's what everone has (see VNV Nation aka Virus Nation). But I can't find another virtual analog synth with the same features for the money. Other VAs either sound crappy or are too much work to use.

I will greatly appreciate any feedback and advice you all have to offer. I know it all boils down to personal preference, but maybe there are a few of you out there with similar priorities. I love to tweak up my own new sounds, but I like to do it very quickly and easily. I'm a songwriter first. Sound design always takes a back seat...

HELP!

mark nicholas
info@cosmicity.com
http://www.cosmicity.com

[~cliffwalk]

I don't own one but if I was in the market for a VA I'd buy a Virus. I played around with quite a variety a couple months ago while I was visiting Guitar Center to gawk and haven't experienced a better instrument (in that price range). Actually I haven't experienced much beyond that price range.

Maybe since you name your synths you can just paint it? ;)

dave

[~NukleoN]

Mark,

I own a Virus B myself and you know what, I bought one because of the sound, long before I even heard of VNV Nation. ;) For the record, you sound nothing like VNV Nation so I don't think your sound will suffer because of the awesome synth that is the Virus B! As you know, it's what you do with it.

The Virus is quite a versatile synth with great support from Access. It's even got a good vocoder on it (and you'll need that for your space-themed album, no doubt, right?). It does have its own effects and you know, it's my favorite synth right now.

When I bought mine, I had tested it against several other synths including the Supernova II, and the sound of the Virus was exactly what I wanted..even the presets are killer (though I make my own sounds now). Buy it now before it's too late! :)

Oh yeah I recommend the Access mailing list too if you want to really get the most out of it. I think you can find a link from www.access-music.de.

Take care,

[~intro]

I've always wanted an Alesis Andromeda. But I have yet to find someone willing to buy my organs so I can afford it.

I know a few people who have Korg MS2000's and like them quite a bit as well.

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[~intro]

Although... if you want to get a Virus, but not be totally like VNV Nation, you could always get the Access Indigo 2. It's got the same basic engine as the Virus B, but after playing with both, I like the sound of the Indigo 2 a little better. Alfie from E:Moderne has it, and every time I'm at his house, he's beating me off of his Indigo with a stick.

Not to mention the thing is built like a ¤¤¤¤ing tank. That thing would survive nuclear holocaust. So it would be a great board to use live =]

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[~matrix]

The Virus and Indigo are identical!!! There is no difference between them in sound, just to clarify.

[~epsilon minus]

If you want to get a Virus and not sound like VNV Nation, you could try actually programming it... :P

I'm getting miffed over this whole VNV/Virus thing. For one thing, the sounds VNV use could easily be produced on pretty much any virtual analog. Didn't they do all of Futureperfect with Reaktor? Maybe they're using Virus presets on everything, I don't know, I haven't touched a Virus since the first model came out, I don't even remember what it sounded like. Anyways, if you want a Virus, but don't want to use the same 3 patches VNV uses for everything they do, just don't use presets. Presets are for suckaz in the first place. I'm tempted to get a Virus myself, and if I do, I can tell ya, it won't be sounding like VNV.

[~nwdve]

Get the Virus B...It is the king of virtual analog. I don't think you will end up sounding like someone else because they have the same synth. I acquired a synth from a rep (at the time I worked for a synth dealer) that was used by the Beach Boys on tour. I can assure you, I haven't bought a surf board yet!!!

[~NukleoN]

From what I saw, Mark was looking not to spend the money on a Virus C, so I cannot imagine he'd want an Indigo 2 which costs more than a C (but is oh so cool). That tiny Indigo keyboard might be good for gigging and portability, however.

The Virus B rocks. I love mine and yep, making your own sounds is the only way to go, though there is nothing wrong with using presets...I mean people buy sounds all the time... sample CD's come with nothing but sounds that someone else spent time making! :) I did use the Virus B presets (and arps) for a few songs, but once I learned how to do arrangement dums in Sonar, my preset days were over. I've long since stopped using the Virus arps too, much more fun to make my own.

Get the B Mark! <invoking Jedi mind trick>

'I need to get the B'

'These aren't the droids you're looking for'

'These aren't the droids we're looking for'

'move along'

'move along...move along'.

:)

[~cosmicity]

Thanks for the advice, gang. VERY helpful. For the record, I do create/edit-the-crap-out-of almost every sound I use. I have no intention of turning on a new synth and using the presets. Cosmicity wouldn't sound like Cosmicity if I did that. I just like to be able to edit quickly and easily. But I also agree that, from time to time, a preset is unavoidable. If someone has already programmed exactly what you need, ya may as well use it. But this is the exception, not the rule. For me, at least. (An example for Cosmicity fans: the opening pad of the song "Crucify" is an almost unaltered preset from the Korg Wavestation. I just couldn't improve on it. Great sound.)

But your points are well-taken. I'm unlikely to sound just like VNV by using the same synth. Quite true. I guess by reading all the stuff I'd read, I feared that the sound of this synth (it's tonal signature, if you will) was so tied-in to the VNV sound that it would sound like I was influenced by / copying them... which couldn't be further from true. I can prove it, 'cause I don't know their sound well enough to "hear for myself" if the Virus sounds like them! But ¤¤¤¤ it. I'm going to play it tonight. If I love it, I'll get it.

As of now, it's gonna boil down to a choice between the Virus and a Waldorf (Q or XTk... gotta hear them again to figure out which is better.) A lot of people are telling me to get a Waldorf because the Wavetable synthesis type is gonna give me sounds that are notably different than my Supernova or Nord Lead. Since the Virus uses the same synthesis types as Nord and Nova synths, it may be similar. But I'll hear that for myself.

By the way, anyone out there ever tried a machinedrum? I saw this online last night and it caught my eye. I'd love to hear thoughts if any of you have ever tried one out. Looks like it beats the snot out of my Korg ER-1 (even though I've been using Reason for drums lately.)

mark nichiolas
info@cosmicity.com
http://www.cosmicity.com

[~nwdve]

Ahhhhhhh....The Waldorf Q+...Now that is another synth I would love to add to my arsenal! The comb filters on the Q's are so coooooool!! A great way to realize some interesting synth leads and basses. If you can swing it, I would recommend that you compare it with the Virus B.

You made a good point that you already have a Nord synth which is also an analog emulator. The Virus B is way different in sound to me from the Nord and the other analog emulators. I would still consider it. In a perfect world, we would all have the entire product lines of Waldorf and Nord!! I could die happy anyway.

[~NukleoN]

Mark,

I use a Waldorf XTK as my controller...I got this orange beast because of the wavetable synthesis (as opposed to VA) and the fact that it is different from the Virus B's sound.

I love both synths, and admittedly I know the Virus better but still, the Virus would be the first thing I'd replace if I had to build a studio from scratch.

I have been uber-impressed by Access as a company as well, having particpated on their mailing list off and on. Access really listens and cares about the opinions of their users and they've certainly earned my loyalty as a musician and consumer.

You may want to consider the Virus C even...more polyphony could go a long way, but if you have enough gear you're already keen to use, the extra polyphony isn't that big of a deal. :)

[~David Vesel]

Perhaps a thread for another time, but I have to ask because it's been on my mind like Shoe Goo....

Mark, how was it using a sampler for your drum machine?

Reason I ask is I just plunked (what is for me) big bux on an E-Mu EMax II, specifically with the intention of using it for drums (since, after all, don't 98 percent of drum machines these days play samples anyway?).

Need a TR-909? (pops in a floppy disk) :)

Or did I just make an expensive mistake?

[~Sean X]

The Virus - maybe it's too popular. I don't own one, but I have about three friends who do, and there's mixed reports.

I know that I'm gonna find it's sound tired and cliched like the 303 before too long if people keep enthusing about them. My friends in Greenhaus swear by theirs, but they still accede to the points Adam in Trucido made - which is that they spend more time on effects and not enough on oscillators. I personally prefer synths with hardly any effects on them at all, like the Waldorfs. Effects are cheap anyhow....

Another alternative if you want that powerful and unique analogue thing is the Elevata. Very impressive, and about the same price as a "B"

[~slitscan]

Hello Mark!

In defense of the Virus, as with what everyone else has says, it depends on how you use it. VNV's going to sound like VNV no matter what they use. Their last album was created using only VST instruments and a little sampler, and the sound is still similiar to their last disc, which was almost all virus. There are a few bands I know that use the Virus quite a bit, and get something completely different out of it.. Flesh Field springs to mind.
As far as the extra features of the C, it hasn't proven itself yet, but it will knowing Access. When the B first came out, it wasn't much more impressive than the A, but the massive OS upgrades that Access made available free beefed the thing up to the nth degree. Since they've probably left more room to grow this time, I'm sure they'll start soon with the expansions..

But, as for intuitive, I've heard it's not.. Now, I don't own one, (could never afford it) so I can't speak from experience, but I've had people call me at 4am after buying one trying to get the internal effects off of presets. It takes a while to get used to.

I'd recommend looking into a Sid-station for what you're intending.. Then again, I have weird taste ;)

[~arronc]

Hey there : I love the Sid Chip, I have the hardsid quattro fully loaded and 2 real c64's. They would be best for what Mark is describing, put its takes a very long time to lean to use one well, and In my opinion, the Sidstation rather cripples the posibilities for the weirder side of things becuase you cant program (from basic, C++ etc) the evolving sounds.

[~Quixote Chapter]

I'd definitly take a long look at Waldorf's line of synths. I have a micro Q which has become my favorite synth. It does spacey sounds fantastically well. And it has an awesome random patch feature which can yield unbelievably origional results. It's fairly intuitive but it does have a menu system, so you might want to spring for the Q. I love my waldorf. It is the bread and butter of my new work!



-Kevin

[~slitscan]

Whilst on the topic, has anyone demo that new Red Sound module 'eleVata'?

I'm really curious as to how the machine actually sounds.. The Red Sound demo mp3s really didn't sound too hot, but you can never really trust those things anyway.

[~intro]

I dunno slitscan. I've been wondering the same thing since I saw it profiled in Future Music. But I haven't seen one anywhere...

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[~cosmicity]

Hey gang... I almost forgot about this thread! Just so you know where I ended up...

I carefully compared the Virus synths (B and C) and the Waldorfs (XT and MicroQ) and I found the Waldorfs much more suited for me. The key reasons were:

1. The Virus interface was not very intuitive. At least, not for the way my brain works! I found that doing just about anything that required their tiny screen and menus was very confusing. I could figure stuff out, but I found the struggle frustrating. However, I do admit that I have little patience for such things. I don't even like to read manuals.

2. The Virus sounds a great deal like a Supernova, only not quite as crisp. (I like crisp.) More importantly, the Supernova has a better interface and a feature that no other Synth (that I've ever heard of) can touch: All of the effects stay with the programs. Now, I know everyone likes to add effects later, but I don't. I want them instantly, and I don't want to have to ¤¤¤¤in' recreate them in multi-mode (see workstation synths). With a Novation Supernova, (or Nova) you never have to. Effects are glued to programs, and you can use 56 of them at once (7 effects per part for each of the 8 parts). So, bottom line, I already have a Supernova, so the Virus doesn't really give me anything new.

3. The Waldorfs just sound outstandingly rich. I didn't really understand until I did the comparison to other virtual analog synths in the store. Waldorfs are awesome. And they really do have an easy-to-use interface. Lots of knobs and buttons for instant access, logical menus for other parameters, no key functions are burried, etc.

So, I bought the XTk. I realize that the microQ actually has a bit more polyphony and stuff, but the XTk is a full-sized synth (as opposed to a rack) and I got it for about the same price as a MicroQ. But ya know, I'm liking this one so much, I might pick up a MicroQ rack to go along with it later in the year. Money permitting, that is.

Thanks for all of your help, everyone. And to be clear, the Virus is a very nice synthesizer. I'm not knocking it, and I agree that it's all about what you do with it. It's just that, for my money, I'd get a Supernova first. Make sure you compare 'em if any of you are shopping for something new as well. :-)

-mark

[~pop]

Good choice. Q sounds more cleaner. It has less overtone midrange sound.

[~nwdve]

Originally posted by slitscan
Whilst on the topic, has anyone demo that new Red Sound module 'eleVata'?

I'm really curious as to how the machine actually sounds.. The Red Sound demo mp3s really didn't sound too hot, but you can never really trust those things anyway.

Electonic Musician recently reviewed a lot of the analog-modeling synths, including the Red Sound eleVata, in the August issue. While they were generally favorable to all the models reviewed, they seemed to like the Elevata the least. I would still like to hear one for myself to make my own opinions. Sadly, there are no dealers carrying this in the Houston area..aargh!!!

[~nwdve]

By the way, congrats on your purchase Cosmicity!! Sounds like you're gonna be having a lot of fun.

[~cosmicity]

Yes I am having fun! Though I do hate having to get used to new gear (Triton, Waldorf XTk, Reason 2.0), it's been a blast so far. Brilliant new sounds are always inspiring.

[~NukleoN]

Congrats Mark!

It's funny, I actually compared a Virus B to a Supernova and thought, 'I like the dirtier, evil sound of the Virus'. ;) It just grabbed me. The Supernova definitely has a good FX setup.

Still, you can't go wrong with the XTK...I love mine as well, even if I don't understand it nearly as well as I'd like!

[~Grey Area]

damn, now I'm having second thoughts (-: I was actually planning on getting a Virus Indigo tomorrow, but now I'm not so sure. I definitely can't afford the Supernova, as much as I want one, but the Indigo seems like the one for me.

the main thing I need it for is a vocoder. of course the sounds are also important, but I need some serious vocal effects going on too.

I'm definitely not brilliant when it comes to MIDI and programming and tweaking effects and stuff like that, so I'm kinda anxious now about the menu problems that you had. I also have hardly any patience and hate reading manuals, so this might be a problem for me.

I think I'll probably end up getting the Indigo anyway, the only other synth I came across that I liked a lot for its sounds was the XTK, and at the time I couldn't afford that one either.