how do ya like dem apples [RIAA news]

[~MidiRipper]

2 words:

¤¤¤¤¤ That

'Ripper

[7red7]

This sucks a**!!!

[Synthpopalooza]

This is scary.

Plumb scary.

Are we heading towards a police state? Not only can they hack in, but if they get you by mistake, you have no recourse for suing them back. This is all starting to go too far.

Now, before we continue, I want to clarify something: I maintain the position that file trading should never be done in place of buying CD's from independent artists. Indeed, artists deserve to be paid. I also think what the music industry is doing to artists is far far worse than what filetrading is doing.

My main beef with the RIAA is what it's trying to do to independent webcasting (something which hits very close to home for me) ... those who have the money, trying to flex their power and impose their will on the free world.

[~ElectroJunk]

Will they hack foreign hosts to?

[NoirTech]

I read that article too and felt it was f'd up.,....but also I'm caught in the middle since part of the company I work for produces movies. Should be interesting to see how this will play out, but I don't think they are gonna allow big corporations to hack into peoples computers. There is just way too many things that could go wrong. Or if they do allow them, it will probably take a long time for them to get it up and running, without destroying someones files/computer. You know the second they do, it's gonna be all over CNN.

[~NullDevice]

The backlash will come.

What these groups have always failed to realize is that technological "protections" aren't going to stop this sort of thing. Copy protection never has. Even dongles can't stop people from pirating million-dollar software. Do they really think that somebody isn't going to come up with a way to deflect an RIAA or MPAA attack?

Hell, I'll just tell my home firewall to filter any and all traffic from a known RIAA host.

Sure, there's ways they can get around that. And then ways I can get aorund their getting around.

If these groups want to stop piracy, they need to address the fact that the reason people pirate in the first place is because they don't feel the product is worth paying the price for. If the industry had worked with the technology sector from the start rather than fighting against it, we wouldn't have this problem.

The people who are hurt most are the consumers, and the small indie labels. They're the ones who'll still get pirated no matter what RIAA and MPAA does - they don't have the resoruces to mount the attacks, so they lose.

It's interesting - these people want immunity to do what a new law just made a life-in-prison offense. A DoS attack against someone's home is considered "cyberterrorism" and carries grave penalties - unless you're in the entertainment industry?

This is some pretty ¤¤¤¤ed-up stuff, lemme tell you.

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by NullDevice


If these groups want to stop piracy, they need to address the fact that the reason people pirate in the first place is because they don't feel the product is worth paying the price for. If the industry had worked with the technology sector from the start rather than fighting against it, we wouldn't have this problem.


I agree with many of your points. One thing though, they are talking about movies. Especially new movies that are in the theatres. For example...Spider-Man. No one can complain about the price to pay for it since it is not available to purchase yet. Spider-Man became the movie that was downloaded the most this summer. Here is the kicker. I decided to go to the swap meet the other day...and guess what I saw for sale there. Yep...Spider-Man movie bootlegs on VHS. Made from the downloaded file. $8 gets you a copy of it.
What's my point? I don't know. Too tired to think actually. I guess my point is that I can see why some studios are taking this action, but I don't think it IS the correct action. What is the correct action? Probably to go after the people who are selling the bootlegs....maybe. What do you think?

[7red7]

Now some of you may agree with me on this, and others won't but please hear me out either way...

A friend of mine and I had a discussion last night based on this thread ans heres what we've come up with...

Sharing mp3 files with a friend is not piracy in my eyes...People have been making compilation tapes for friends even before cd burners were thought of...Everyone makes copies of movies, records your favorite television shows so you won't miss them...Sharing is sharing...

When people obtain promo copies of a particular cd, no matter how they got it, they have it...If they choose to put it online and make it available for someone to upload tracks from it, then theres not much we can do about it...I don't agree with sites that cater to full length albums for people to click and download...To me, you should be a real fan and shell out the bucks for the real thing...A CDR is never the same as the real thing, just a subsitute for a collector...

I think that the Music industry should lower the overall prices of cd's to cut down on the piracy...Thats what was stsated above...A lot of the piracy stems from people not thinking the album is worth the price...Then the industry counters with the argument that the reason prices are so high is to counter the piracy because they are losing money...Major label artists make too much money as it is...Albums going platinum in a week, it's ridiculously out of control the way hardcore fans and trendy kids will shell out their money for the "real" thing...Thats my point, they aren't losing any money, the poor inept of defending themselves against the giant indie labels are those that lose money, so the RIAA should just stop their b****ing!!!

As for the movies situation... The MPAA has every right to be mad at what's happening to them...Screener movies are not made available for public biewing, only for media, and press reviewers, and for other production teams...Also for licensing purposes...People who posess and copy screeners are breaking a law...

[7red7]

Now some of you may agree with me on this, and others won't but please hear me out either way...

A friend of mine and I had a discussion last night based on this thread ans heres what we've come up with...

Sharing mp3 files with a friend is not piracy in my eyes...People have been making compilation tapes for friends even before cd burners were thought of...Everyone makes copies of movies, records your favorite television shows so you won't miss them...Sharing is sharing...

When people obtain promo copies of a particular cd, no matter how they got it, they have it...If they choose to put it online and make it available for someone to upload tracks from it, then theres not much we can do about it...I don't agree with sites that cater to full length albums for people to click and download...To me, you should be a real fan and shell out the bucks for the real thing...A CDR is never the same as the real thing, just a subsitute for a collector...

I think that the Music industry should lower the overall prices of cd's to cut down on the piracy...Thats what was stated above...A lot of the piracy stems from people not thinking the album is worth the price...Then the industry counters with the argument that the reason prices are so high is to counter the piracy because they are losing money...Major label artists make too much money as it is...Albums going platinum in a week, it's ridiculously out of control the way hardcore fans and trendy kids will shell out their money for the "real" thing...Thats my point, they aren't losing any money, the poor inept of defending themselves against the giant indie labels are those that lose money, so the RIAA should just stop their b****ing!!!

As for the movies situation... The MPAA has every right to be mad at what's happening to them...Screener movies are not made available for public viewing, only for media, and press reviewers, and for other production teams...Also for licensing purposes...People who posess and copy screeners are breaking a law...Promo copies of movies are non-existant for the public to obtain...

Furthermore, I think it's in the MPAA's right to be angry...To take it to the level of hacking into computers to stop it is barbaric, and going too far...Same for the RIAA, only the RIAA can kiss my a**...I have no sympathy for them...

If they want the problem to be cut down, they need to implement stricter guidlines for who exactly can get a promo copy of anything be it movies or cd's...Stop it at the source so the thugs at local swapmeets can't make money from "illegally" pirating and selling someone else's hard work...

Okay so fire away with the flame posts now...

But thanks for reading all of this :)

[~draxijn]

i agree that sharing a few scattered songs with friends is alright...but when you're simply copying entire albums...k wait this has been done to DEATH hasn't it? there are some servers out there with more mp3 album than you can imagine...had i not seen this first hand i'd never have believed it. action needs to be taken against the owners of these servers at least...

but the root of THAT problem is mainly groups like AMOK...these groups are lying to themselves!

from an amok rip:

MORAL DiSCLAiMER: We are very aware of the fact that our releases contibute to the growing sale losses of record companies.

Unfortunately our style primarily targets small, independant labels
that need sales to survive.

For these reasons we ask you not to distribute this release on public sites or Napster; if more and more receive their music from the net, artists and labels will have to face even less sells than nowadays.

Please do not consider this release as a substitute to the original, but only as a way to check out and learn about new music.

We absolutely do not approve of DJs or other individuals that earn
money from pirated music - Don't let them get their hands on it!

By buying the albums you like you disperse the guilt we feel by
releasing this music - Enjoy the music and be fair with the artists!

YOUR support is required to keep them financially alive and producing!

---------------------

that is all total CRAP and they know exactly what they're doing. there are couriers responsible for spreading the releases to public servers. it's like spreading the groups dominance or ability to get the rip out before another group...or that's how they see it. these guys need a major ass-kicking!

i look back on every ftp server i ever ran into...geez amok has released thousands...maybe tens of thousands of albums now.

if anyone's to blame it's these competing ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤s making it so easy for us to get the music. take away this primary source and sure you'll still have piracy but it would be a start!

[~draxijn]

oh yeah and i don't agree with this hacking crap either...i've been hacked on two occassions and it feels horrible. you never shake that distrustful feeling once you're a victim.

(you also wish like hell you had the punk's ip and the software the pathetic script-kiddie was using)

i use a firewall now (software) but if someone actually knows what they're doing it won't stop them...

[7red7]

Yeah Draxijn, your right...We need to see a stop at the source...If people in the general public or employees working for the companies can be limited and restricted on their obtaining of album promo's it would be a great start to limit piracy...It's like I said and Draxijn concured...Sharing some songs with friends is one thing...Just get the music out there so you can learn about new artists and want to buy their albums...But running a web-site that offers complete albums is a joke, and they should all be reported and stopped...These are the real pirates...

[NoirTech]

Wait, I thought that article was concentrating on movies, and wasn't going into music. I must've misread it, since this turn into an mp3/music discussion. Going back to re-read it. Sorry if my movie comments were off topic.

[7red7]

Oh no NoirTech buddy you were right on in the movie parts...It briefly mentions the musical side of things, but basically what it's saying (assuming I read correctly-he he he!!!) is that both sides are banding together to stop the piracy at all costs...Which then goes on to talk of how they'll hack into our computers if they feel that we are sharing mp3's, movies, etc...

It's still a bunch of Sheitzer to me :)

[NoirTech]

Oh screw that! Here I thought they were only going for the movie sharing people. I see why this conversation went into the music side of that article. I was hitting it from the MOVIE side of it. Now the company that I work for does produce movies and music, so I'll have to keep a close eye as to what they do. A few months ago, the guy who sat next to me got fired for having MORPHEOUS installed on his computer. Though...he was warned before. He used to download movies from work as well. You would figure some people in the technology industry would be smarter then that.

[7red7]

Pretty messed up stuff huh???

And I couldn't help but laugh at the guy you used to work with getting fired...Not too bright downloading movies at work when you work for a company that's in the movie making business *LOL*

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by 7red7
Pretty messed up stuff huh???

And I couldn't help but laugh at the guy you used to work with getting fired...Not too bright downloading movies at work when you work for a company that's in the movie making business *LOL*

Yeah..the guy wasn't too smart..and actually..kinda annoying. He was always talking smack about how anti-cops he was and that he would kill one if they stopped him, or what not. Basically...and idiot.
He once made the mistake of saying stupid like that when one of my friends was talking to me. It just so happened that her husband was a cop and she went up to him and gave him a mouth full. It ruled! hehehe

[7red7]

So I wonder if this bill will pass, and they really "can" start hacking into our computers...Personally, I won't be feeling very safe when I'm online...What if I'm e-mailing a friend an mp3 from my personal files, or just talking about something related to music in AIM and they see it??? Then because they presume I might go forth and make what they consider to be an illegal transaction in file sharing, they decide to raid my files and corrupt my computer...

The saddest part of this whole thing IMO, is that we basically have no rights in taking any recoursive action against them in court...Unless the damage exceeds a certain dollar amount, we're stuck with a half-working comp...This is the lowest and most unecessary plan of action they could have come up with...

And doesn't this violate our rights in some way??? I'm sure it does...If you ask me, what they're considering is highly illegal in itself...

[NoirTech]

You know, I have a tough time seeing this bill getting passed. It has so many things that could go wrong. Especially now how the market is, and people very weary of big corporations, I don't see it happening, well....at least not in the near future.
This will certainly be an interesting story to keep up with. If anyone sees any new information, post it here please.

[~Eyuva]

The record industry is going mad, heck they're even trying to collect royalties on used CD sales.

[7red7]

Thats interesting...How do they think they can get away with collecting from us consuming cd shoppers twice, maybe even three to twenty times depending on the resale used bin life of an average cd??? What will those bloodsuckers think of next???

[~draxijn]

Originally posted by Eyuva
The record industry is going mad, heck they're even trying to collect royalties on used CD sales.

how on earth are they gonna go about this...is there a link to a related story? holy lord...i think about some of the used cd shops i've been into and how disorganized they are...how could they keep tabs on cd's once they've made their way back into these small second hand stores?

bottom line is they are throwing everything they have into a battle they're never gonna win. it's too bad artists need big labels (to really make a good living)...it's too bad they all couldn't sell music direct to us and receive all our hard-earned cash.

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by djstargazerX
the thing is... THEY CAN DO THAT
ahem.. two words...

ANI DIFRANCO

she owns her own label, selling us the albums where she makes all the profit.. been like that since day one

and she sells ALOT OF RECORDS.. we are talking thousands and thousands.. not onsies and twosies

you'd think people would learn from her...

That's interesting. How come more known bands/musicians aren't doing this? Seems like they would get more out of it if they did. Probably due to some contract they signed at some point in their career? ....like Madonna...ok....i know she is already rich....but I'm sure if she sold her albums herself she would be x3 as rich...no?
Seems like Ani Difranco has her sht together.

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by djstargazerX
yeah... Prince does it as well i believe... but Ani has done this since her very first record.. now Righteous Babe is a powerhouse indie label capable of doing whatever it wants...

what it is, is ALOT OF WORK.. which alot of bands arent willing to do.

plus being one rock band in a million... or an electronic band who is doomed to be compared to depeche mode is ALOT harder than being in the folk scene while being cute, nice, and with the feminist scene getting alot of press... BUT STILL... more people could be doing this.

Yeah...I can totally see how that would be a lot of work for many artists. You are correct about a synthpop act trying this with the problem of also being compared to DM. That sucks. Pretty much all synthpop bands get compared to DM. Sad...but true.

[~spi]

The worst thing about this proposed legislation is it give ANYONE who suspects that you have their copyrighted material(words,music,programs,etc) the right to break and enter before finding out that you in reality don't have anything of theirs. This would make the internet dissolve into random chaos with no way to stop it. This legislation is pure stupidity.

It is written for the RIAA,MPAA etc but in reality it gives ANYONE the right to hack ANY computer. :(

-steve

[7red7]

Just to add another tidbit on Ani (sorry I'm getting in late with this)...

She started out when she was only 16 years old, and her manager/agent at that time had to buy the record company for her...You might say signed his name on the dotted line as the state had laws preventing a minor from owning a business until she was 18...Once she was, it was turned over to her to run, and since that day in around 1989-90 (I believe) she has done a bang up job of it too :)

The thing to remember about her is that she took a big risk, and in one interview I read a long time ago, she said that it was all she really had (her music)...It's all she wanted to do in life at that time, so she took a big risk that could have possibly failed...ie; she was just very ballsy and brave, and decided to take a chance...If I was to go as far as to say I think she's happy at the outcome of her decision over the past decade...I wouldn't be far from the truth at all :)

So in the end, (and I don't blame them at all) I think thats why a lot of people aren't doing this like she has chosen to...Because it's really hard to go head first into something knowing it might fail, and that the outcome could ruin you financially...

[~PTInc]

Originally posted by NoirTech


I agree with many of your points. One thing though, they are talking about movies. Especially new movies that are in the theatres. For example...Spider-Man. No one can complain about the price to pay for it since it is not available to purchase yet. Spider-Man became the movie that was downloaded the most this summer. Here is the kicker. I decided to go to the swap meet the other day...and guess what I saw for sale there. Yep...Spider-Man movie bootlegs on VHS. Made from the downloaded file. $8 gets you a copy of it.
What's my point? I don't know. Too tired to think actually. I guess my point is that I can see why some studios are taking this action, but I don't think it IS the correct action. What is the correct action? Probably to go after the people who are selling the bootlegs....maybe. What do you think?

Spiderman is the 3rd overall in total gross. I think its at 408 million domestically. I dont think they need to be worrying about catching p2p users... but making sure the contiuation of that franchise doesnt blow ass.

I wonder what the movie house that made Windtalkers has to say about this.

But seriously... the movie business is booming this year. Records are being shattered every other weekend with the releases of SPiderman, Star Wars, Scooby Doo, Austen Powers, MIB2.... and so on. I wonder why they are ¤¤¤¤¤ing now of all times about this piddly piracy.

And btw... show of hands... who downloads these huge movie files (for hours... or days or whatever)... and sits in front of their 15 in moniter (presumebly alone) anyway?!!?

[~PTInc]

And on the subject of "why doesnt madonna work like ani more?"

id rather play it safe and have the label lose its ass on my ¤¤¤¤ty sales... than go enron on my own label.

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by PTInc


Spiderman is the 3rd overall in total gross. I think its at 408 million domestically. I dont think they need to be worrying about catching p2p users... but making sure the contiuation of that franchise doesnt blow ass.



Right...but when there are aholes selling pirated copies to people who don't know better,...well that's just crap. I know it's the fault of the people buying the movies, but some of these people really don't know what they are getting...which is a really crappy product.

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by PTInc

movie house that made Windtalkers has to say about this.

But seriously... the movie business is booming this year. Records are being shattered every other weekend with the releases of SPiderman, Star Wars, Scooby Doo, Austen Powers, MIB2.... and so on. I wonder why they are ¤¤¤¤¤ing now of all times about this piddly piracy.



...cause even though some of these movies are doing well, the market and their stocks are not....and it is hurting them. Take Scooby Doo, Austin Powers....both owned by the same company,....and they have lost A LOT of money in the market in the past year. This will only hurt them more. There are/is EGNer(s) who work for these companies...and are always worried that they will be laid off due to these situations. *ahem*

[~Gandalfe]

Just a few thoughts that this discussion brings out in me:

When is it moral for a government to do something (or, in this case, allow corporations to do something) that it is immoral for an individual to do?

Why is it that these people feel that, because they have always made money in a certain way, that they deserve to have the government step in and make sure that they always can? Should I go out and buy a Lamp-Oil company, and then sue GE?

[~PTInc]

Originally posted by NoirTech

and they have lost A LOT of money in the market in the past year. This will only hurt them more. There are/is EGNer(s) who work for these companies...and are always worried that they will be laid off due to these situations. *ahem*

I think everyone has lost money in the market this year. (heh... cept Sony) BUt curbing piracy isnt going to make much of a difference in the movie business when looking at the grand scheme of things. In fact... if i remember correctly... when the country goes into recession... the entertainment industry usually has a field day since people down on funds will flock to movie houses for a cheap form of escape.

dont mind me... ive been up for 31 hours

of course this is just my opinion... i could be wrong -Dennis Miller

[NoirTech]

Originally posted by PTInc


I think everyone has lost money in the market this year. (heh... cept Sony)


You are so right. I need to stop looking at the stock market. It gets me sooo depressed. Daddy needs a new house damnit! hehehe
Here's to hoping the up swing comes soon.

[~Gandalfe]

What I was getting at is the concept that out-moded technologies should not have any different protection. GE (and Westinghouse) must have put many, many oil companies out of business.

[~jag]

no. no. no.

this better not happen ... it can't; are they crazy?

i mean it ... are they insane?!

if this gets past it's like vigelanty (sp?) justice. that has never been tolerated in america, ... oh, unless it's big business; i don't think so.

The RIAA should face it, things change, change with it or get left. They've been screaming for years, fighting this battle, they were fighting it before the internet ... and it is right,

(a) high price - little content
(b) radio stations that play the same 20 songs
(c) no great new talents (hey, look over here dumbasses)
(d) indie labels

None of these things have bearing on their 5% loss ... no it's piracy damn it! The money they are spending in court could definitely be better spent and more effective coming business strategies lower CD prices, open-minded talent scouting ..well, we all know.

sorry, to ramble ....

if the blow hards find a way to get into our PCs with this it will only lead to other similar, "legal" invasions.