Fletch................

[~zenzation]

is he totally useless...how do you all feel about him? I dotn hate him but common....if it was not him pplaying synth it could be anyone....no one could replace Dave and Mart....

[~kellyrenee]

OMG! I love that question! I've NEVER EVER understood what use he is to DM. He doesn't write. He doesn't sing. He doesn't play keyboards. What am I missing?? Isn't he the main reason that Alan Wilder left the band??

I've been told that Fletch is kept around because he is Martin's "voice" to be heard. Martin doesn't like the public eye so much, or answering lots of questions. Fletch does the talking for him. Is this true?

Also, I had the chance to go backstage and meet the band after the Exciter show in Dallas last year. Fletch was a total jerk. I stuck my hand out and said GREAT SHOW and he just gave me this 'yada yada yada' blank stare. He didn't even flinch. At least Martin, who was being pulled in a thousand different directions, was cordial. Fletch just stood in a corner and eyeballed the room.

Not trying to sound like a b*tch...but those are my opinions!

[7red7]

Well to state the facts...Fletch plays a vital role in the band that goes beyond musicianship...First of all:

Fletch is their finance controller...Contrary to what everyone thinks, Jonathan (whatever his name guy) is Dave's personal manager, and does not always speak for the band entirely...

Fletch is involved in deciding where they go, where they play, what they spend, and in the past has at times been the go to guy for decisions, most notably on the Devotional Tour...And aside from the others, he has always been the media friendly guy who stops to answer questions...

He is involved in the studio with assistance in production, and he can program a mean bass synth and drum tracks...Keep in mind any song you've ever seen that says produced by so and so and depeche mode, that means Fletch too...

He does play live on stage...Not much, but he does play his keyboard, it's not an unplugged decoration he stands behind, it is functional, and he also provides backing vocals as well...He does have a mic set up on his key rack...It might appear that he has all the free time in the world, but trust me on this one, he does something...

As far as his attitude goes, I can't vouch for that, but I can offer this theory for you...Try and imaginge everyone everywhere you go, telling you you do nothing on stage, and that you are the most useless member to the band, and contribute nothing...After a while, you wouldn't want to talk to anyone after your shows either...I also know for a fact that he gets that a lot from interviewers who tell him so during interviews...But I've always known him to be very funny about the whole thing...He even plays it off during the 101 movie...Theres a whole segway on the topic of his role in the band...

Besides, in the end, all of the newer fans who's favorite albums include Exciter, Devotion, Ultra...Get to know the old school before casting an opinion of Fletch that gives him this image of being a nobody...

Remember without Fletch, their would be no DM period...He and Vince were the first ones to get it all together and brought Mart along for the ride...

Dave doesn't write, doesn't play any instruments...He's merely the suave frontman providing only his voice...Which granted makes DM what they are, no one can take that from him, but he doesn't contribute musically, Mart writes it, Dave sings it...In the past Alan would also write it, and Dave would sing it...

Speaking of Alan, his main reason for leaving the band came from Mart, not Fletch...Granted everyone was getting into fistfights backstage during the Devotional tour, it was Mart's opinions not meshing with Alan that did him in...It all came down to creative control and freedom...Alan wanted to be a bigger role in the band and co-write more, Mart was having none of that, so before the end of the Devotional tour Alan dropped out of sight and they got someone else to fill in for him...

(Why do I stick up for Fletch???) Hey someone has to, he always gets the short end of the stick, and I always look out for the underdog :)

[~intro]

I'm not a Fletch fan, and I'm going to argue a few of 7red7's points. Here goes.

Fletch is an accountant. A manager. That is his primary role in the band, as far as I can tell. And Martin has problems talking to EVERYONE the way I understand it, even Dave and his producers, and Fletch has always been the one who's made sure Martin's ideas got heard. Guess Mart doesn't know how to stand up for himself.

He's played live on stage for the past few tours, but before that, it's very questionable. At most, he's probably triggering some samples from his keyboard. In some of the earlier live videos, he barely touches his keyboard. And Alan has said numerous times that Fletch has trouble playing to a beat, and he would make sure Fletch's keyboard was muted on the house mix so that no one would hear him.

He does sing backup, he gets points for that.

Not sure about his studio work. But if he can program a mean bassline, send him over to my house. I can't program a good bass to save my life.

The farther you go back in Mode's history, the less Fletch had to do with the music (except for his role as a founder). He seems to be playing more of a role as a keyboardist since Alan's departure.

Dave does write, and he plays guitar, but he does neither for Depeche Mode. Not sure why he's never written anything for the Mode, or played guitar on any of the tracks, but I'm guessing that's Mart's call. If you want to hear what Dave writes, and how he plays, check out his solo album when it's released. Dave is not just a voice.

Alan leaving the band. This has been discussed so many times... ugh. But he's clarified it numerous times as well. Everything was out of whack. Dave was drugged up, Martin couldn't quit drinking, and Fletch was (and always had been) a raging ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ to him. He and Fletch have had a long history of hatred, and most of it was coming from Fletch. Alan couldn't contribute creative input, which annoyed him. He was constantly treated like a workhorse by the rest of the band (many times, the other three would go out and party while Alan and the producer were at the studio working on the album... this happened on Violator and MftM to name a few examples), and they'd come back just to record guitar and sing, then go out and party again. He's always made less money than the rest of the band, even though he played one of the most important roles. All of this caused Alan to leave.

Depeche, to me, have been bad without Alan. Ultra was alright, but Exciter was completely unlistenable (mainly due to songwriting... how they could waste such a wonderful talent like Mark Bell is beyond me). But I love what Alan has done since he left. I wouldn't give up my Recoil CDs for anything.

This is the story as I know it.

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com

[~exception]

Really interesting thread here, thanks to 7red7 and intro for providing complementary detailed views which form a pretty good picture of things to me.
I've never really read up on *all* the details behind the band even though i've been listening to DM for over 6 years...
:)
Also love your spoof from the other day intro, great lyrics haha

[7red7]

I won't argue Fletch being an accountant and manager of sorts, I did say he handled a lot of the decision making and that invloves a lot of the money going around, and what's spent on what...

As far as the playing goes, my fault on that one, I never specified what I believe him to be playing...He can play basic chords, and nowdays does nothing more than trigger the backing tracks and samples with his keyboard...

The Alan thing I've heard many things on why he actually left the band...I know for sure the biggest reason is the creative difference thing, and it's sad cause he was the workhorse for the band, and was the best musician of the four of them...Personally, he could play circles around the now lazy Vince Clarke...

As for Dave being just a voice, I was only talking about his involvement with DM, I'm keeping whatever he does on his own time out of my train of thought...Solo is solo, DM is DM, I'm sure his solo sound will be nothing like DM at all, as will Mart's solo record...

I will agree also with your sentiments on the band's sound upon Alan's leaving...It just gets weaker and weaker...Ultra was alright, Exciter lags from start to finish...I love the Exciter tour DVD, and they do the songs live very well, I only wish they had that energy on the record, I would probably accept it more...

To get back to the thread though, I still gotta stick up for Fletch...Nice, mean, talented musician or not, he's still DM form day one, so he gets my support...

BTW, nice debate we got going here "intro" you gave me one of the best counter arguments from the DM forum I've seen in a long time :)

[~exception]

OT sorta, but just to comment on "exciter" in reference to the state of DM, or where they've gone latly (again), it was worth hearing, and it had/has it's own mystique for me because it's very organic and melancholy, but those points are also its downfall as far as being a "keeper" as an album. It is so full of longing for something that it comes across as being very empty (or something?)

It seems to me more like one of those albums that you listen to until its absorbed (rather quickly) and then it falls into the background indefinately. It just lacks focus or something, and while i could argue that they have evolved as far as incorporating the guitar elements goes, there is a lot missing.. while i can appreciate the album, it just feels too spaced-out and "lost" to me. Don't get me wrong, a lot of music i write and listen to seems to have that feel too, but then i'm/they're no depeche mode.
Then i listen to violator earlier yesterday and it has so many structured layers which you can focus in on, it just never gets worn out. In contrast exciter is extremely minimal, digitally cold, harmonically sparse, and "progressive" .. not the same type of basic sound at all (to me).

Just rambling about where they've went since alan left.. i'm unsure how i feel, but i know what i hear. Not enough counter-melodies and harmonies layered at the right time interacting with the drum programming, etc.. :)

[~kellyrenee]

I'm outta this one. You guys have some strong facts...more so than me. I will stick to my guns on his attitude, however. Noone should treat their fans so passively and rude as he. Maybe he was having a bad night....

[~cliffwalk]

Dave does write, and he plays guitar, but he does neither for Depeche Mode. Not sure why he's never written anything for the Mode, or played guitar on any of the tracks, but I'm guessing that's Mart's call. If you want to hear what Dave writes, and how he plays, check out his solo album when it's released. Dave is not just a voice.
-------------
Dave's musical ideas outside of his vocals stem from the same reason Alan HAD to leave the band. Martin is, like many great songwriters, a very steadfast control freak when it comes to the music. It's his role, he does it well, and doesn't want others doing it. He doesn't want to share it. I've been in this situation: It ruins friendships, try to avoid sharing writing responbilities in a band unless you have an unbreakable bond with someone.

Examples: Simon & Garfunkel (Childhood friendship: OVER), The Police (They're "FRIENDS" but the reason that band hasn't reuinited is because it's Sting's way or the highway), Japan (David Sylvian and Mick Karn) the list goes on....

Look at Faith Assembly, for example, or any of the one-man-acts on here.... There's a reason for that. It avoids the elements of collaboration that deteriorate a band and musicians will gladly come work with you in a studio on a few of your ideas and everything will go nicely. You'll even accept their input. If you were an "OFFICIAL" band, however... relationship will end....badly...

As far as Fletch goes... He isn't a brilliant musician. He's stage candy... SO... what does he devote himself to?? He realizes what he CAN do, he does it, and the band is thankful even if the fans aren't. Can I understand Fletch not caring much about the fans? Yes... why? They don't like him and really... none of his work is seen so who can blame "us". It's the role he chooses but he likely earns his cut. He's the trusted insider. We never see it but my guess would be that he's probably the one most responsible for keeping the band together all these years despite the problems. Dave's drug problems, Martin's flakeyness, and Alan's departure/constant fighting with Martin.

Bands are a much larger product that what the public sees/hears.

That's one of the PROBLEMS with getting past a certain critical mass in this industry. DM is an example of a band that manages it better than many.

Dave

[7red7]

Well said Dave, very well said...Everyone has great points...Great thread to start zenzation, it's proven to be a real debatable topic :)

[~Quixote Chapter]

I agree with Dave,

Fletch is most likely responsible for DM's Existance. I saw an unedited backstage clip of DM accepting their Viva award last year. While Dave and Mart were farting around acting like chimpanzees Fletch was actually trying to get the promotional clip done, and he quickly whipped Dave and Mart into shape. My guess would be that fletch is the CEO of Depeche Mode and is THE decision maker.

-Kevin

[~NightHalo]

(Okies for some reason my post didn't go through, so I'll try to remember everything I said)

Fletch:
I think he is alright. I think that if he was completely useless he would have quit the band years ago out of boredom/angst, especially during the SOFAD times. I think it is really funny when he danced behind the keyboards and I thought it was great in 101 where he touched the girl's hand and she fainted. tehehee.

David and his solo stuff:

I recall Dave saying in an interview that he wrote songs just in case "something" happened with Depeche Mode. I've heard a lot of people (not here but other boards) say that Dave is a total extrovert and that all he is, is the show. Yet, I believe Dave is far deeper than many tend to think. I recall on 101, he said that his life was much "simpler" just stacking cans as a teenager. He said he was happier. So, I think that says a lot for Depeche Mode.
They have stayed together since Mart and Fletch were 18 and Dave 17. Now Dave is 40! So they have put their lives into it, it doesn't matter who or who isn't the most essential band member. I think what matters is that they ALL have put a lot into what Depeche Mode is.

Exciter:

I hated it when I bought it, but I've grown to love it. I don't think it is shallow, I, in fact, think it is rather deep. Martin said once, when someone questioned him on the new sound, that he thought the reason why the sound was not like the older stuff was because he didn't have the tension anymore. He stated his children and wife as a possible reason for its fading. The lyrics are just fine, it is just the music that is a bit different. And, Dave's voice variability has improved drastically. Thus, I like Exicter.

Just my opinions. :)

[~zenzation]

I like Exciter and I think that the band are better since Alan left!

Ultra and Exciter have way different vibes...and I like them!

[~schalana101]

I agree with both NightHalo and zenzation. I wasn't disappointed with Exciter because I knew that the sound would generally extend from where Ultra left off and I also understand that the current members of the band are now happy with their lives.

[test]

Everyone's tastes are different, so I'm not surprised to see a disparity of opinions in regards to Ultra and Exciter vs. albums produced during Alan Wilder's time with the band.

IMHO, Ultra and Exciter are very weak in comparison to classics like Some Great Reward, Black Celebration and Violator. Those albums are classics specifically because Alan Wilder knew how to see the full potential of Martin's songwriting ability and produce them to fruition. Many times he fleshed out Martin's demos into the classics we know and love.

To give a great example to support my opinion, I read in a biography of the band that the songs on Music For The Masses are the closest to the original demos Martin did then any other album. Take a close listen to the production of those songs and you will hear a similarity to the sparseness of Exciter and especially Ultra. I still love Music For The Masses and I like Ultra and Exciter, but they do not stand out to me like Some Great Reward, Black Celebration and Violator stand out. Some Great Reward, Black Celebration and Violator specifically represent both Martin’s best songwriting and Alan’s best production.

I enjoy Music For The Masses and there are some classic DM songs on it. I like Ultra and Exciter because they are Martin’s songs so they are good songs, but I do lament over what they could have been had Alan stuck around to work his magic. Imagine how much better “It’s No Good” and “I Feel Loved” could have been considering what Alan did with “Enjoy The Silence”. “Comatose” could have been another “It Doesn’t Matter”. “Sister Of Night”, “Insight”, “The Dead Of Night”, “Useless”, “Dream On”. The list goes on – all could have been so much better with Alan’s input.

To quote the Smiths:

“Nothing’s changed I still love you, oh I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less than I used to, my love”

[~schalana101]

I agree that Ultra and Exciter would have been better, production wise, if Alan was still in the band. To me, Alan is the best or one of the best at producing music period. So I can only appreciate Ultra and Exciter for what they have to offer...which imo is more lyrically than musically...which is where Alan comes in...

[~Mike Gjennestad]

if fletch left, who would clap on stage?


gjennmike

[7red7]

Exactly, no matter how much/how little he contributes, he's still a part of DM, and it wouldn't be the same without him...Same as with Alan, it's not the same without him :)

[~NightHalo]

What does everyone think about Fletch having a record label ?
It is called Toast Hawaii, and it is being put out by Mute. The first band signed to it is called Client.

[7red7]

Now thats funny...What would a band signed to a label technically be called??? A client maybe??? Well thats one word for it anyway!!! Heh, Fletch is a riot, not too bright sometimes, but tons of fun :laugh:

[Avil]

This is a kinda funny question.
Well, just think like this. There are many bands around. Some bands have many members. Are really all members necessary?
Maybe not in our eyes, but for the bandmembers it might be like this that they enjoy eachothers company, feels secure bla bla.

[7red7]

Originally posted by Avil
This is a kinda funny question.
Well, just think like this. There are many bands around. Some bands have many members. Are really all members necessary?
Maybe not in our eyes, but for the bandmembers it might be like this that they enjoy eachothers company, feels secure bla bla.


Good point...Thats what I was trying to get at with all of my babling...Some people just need each other, even if it's a group or band :)

[Avil]

Exactly.
We maybe don´t like Fletch, feels that he´s just in the way, while Dave and Mart see him like a brother. Dave isn´t DM. Mart isn´t DM. Fletch isn´t DM. Together they are DM. Blubb.

[7red7]

Well said :)

[~Hajas]

You are right, he have the best job of the world! :)

Freddy

[~hippychick]

I think 7red7 took the words out of my mouth about Fletch. I had no idea fans actually didn't even like him. I've met him, he is cool and down to earth. He is a human being with moods like everyone else! Fletch used to be more active in the early days with keyboards. In any case on the SOFAD tour Daryl Bamonte had to learn Fletch's keyboard parts over one week which he crammed in, supposedly, and they didn't want any other keyboardist to take over while Fletch was gone because they wanted someone who knew the songs & that was Daryl, a member of the crew and friend. So obviously yes he does something - still! And do you not see him sing vocals? He always adds to DM harmony. And it was Fletch and Martin and Vince in Vince's garage starting as early as 1976 who were together, doing cover songs before Composition of Sound came into play. This is per word from one of Fletch's best friends that I spent alot of time with in London one weekend. If you are a true fan how can you diss Fletch, I don't understand it.

[test]

I joke around about Fletch's clapping, but I don't dislike him.

I agree with the band's stance - he was there when it started and he will be there until it ends.

[7red7]

It's like I said before, DM wouldn't be the same without Fletch...Or anyone for that matter...One day, I hope (and this is a far fetched dream) that all of the DM members would reunite and tour...All five of them...I know, I know it'll never happen, but I can dream :D

[test]

I think Fletch having a label and a band for it is a good thing. I thought it was a joke at first, but there it is on dm.com. Maybe now people will see that Fletch does have some sort of talent. :)

[Avil]

What? He got a label? For what?
And do you mean another band except from DM? No.

I´m just thinking slow today.

[test]

Here's the info taken directly from depechemode.com:

"FLETCH NEWS
July 2nd
-

While we have told you about David and Martin's solo projects, there hasn't been much discussed about Andy's recent activities.

Fletch attended the recent Sonar Music Festival in Barcelona (June 13th through 15th, details of the event here). He recommends it if you enjoy good music and visuals.

After the festival, Fletch went to Los Angeles (traveling by train to Santa Barbara from Union Station in Los Angeles) to visit Martin, and see how his Counterfeit solo project is coming along. Andy has heard some of Martin's tracks, and reports that they are very good.

Fletch is currently putting his time into his new record label (Toast Hawaii, through Mute). The first group on the new label is called Client. Their first single is a DJ-only white label 10" single. The tracks are "Client" (Harder Sex Mix) and "The Price Of Love" (Dub). To hear a sample of "Client", we suggest you visit Client's web site, at www.client-online.net.

More details to follow..."

[7red7]

Cool news thanks for putting that up Steph :)

It's nice to see Fletch keeping busy with a new label...:)

[Avil]

That´s pretty cool to know.
So he got other things except DM...cool!

Don´t underestiminate (Gosh how do u spell that...) this man....

[~ElectroM]

I don't really hate Fletch cause he's a person like everyone of us, but he really pisses me off!!!!!!!
First Alan left because of him!!!!!!!!!!
Second he doesn't do anything really!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I feel sorry for him for being so useless....

[~mythuselah]

All in all however private or public Fletch decides to live his role as a member of Dm. I will declare this to the public.

He is there to be my eye candy. He is the honesty and part of the vitality of the band. He may make an hmmm... fool of himself with some of his incoherent mutters and hang himself with his priggish remarks. In the end to me the question should be....Would Depeche Mode be this big without him and his idiosyncrasies

[~zoggoz]

I just can't stand fans that think just because somebody in a group is not Mr Superstar Mr popular with the fans. Right away they consider them useless well guess what as has been mentioned before Fletch plays A vital role. So the next before you call someone useless you better you better take a look at your own usefulness. EVERYONE DESERVES RESPECT FOR THERE EFFORT'S IN ALL ENDEAVORS!!!!!!!

[7red7]

With that said, I would like to simply add an amen to that, I couldn't have stated it better myself :)

[~mythuselah]

Amen!

Hit me! one time

AW!!!
yeah!....Yeah!


like I said I love my fletch and if no one else does. More loven's for me

[~Munson]

I think anyone who is more than just a passive synthpop fan has made at least one joke about Fletch and his arguable usefullness. Reading through these posts though made me realize something...

I don't like or dislike Fletch.

Part of the "problem" is that with everyone else's overpowering personalities he gets left behind so to speak. I think the reason he gets ragged on so much is that he does stay in the background and does things that the common fan cannot see or appreciate.

It also seems like Fletch provides a voice of reason for DM. If he wasn't managing the band would they still be together or would Dave's destructive years ruined the band? Could Martin have handled Dave all by himself if Fletch would have left or would he have said f**k this and tried his own thing?

Lastly, just want give props to 7 Red 7 and everyone else for their insight. This is a damn good thread!

[~schalana101]

Honestly guys,
I didn't have an opinion about Fletch until I first read everyone else's opinion on this thread. I liked Fletch and I still do. I think he is a positive force in the band, especially after all they've been through, but I respect everyone's thoughts and opinions about him. :)

[~intro]

I don't like Fletch because he was always trying to start ¤¤¤¤ with Alan. If you don't believe me, pick up the Steve Malins biography (which is actually pretty good), or go snoop around on the Recoil site in the Q+A archives or the Singles 84 - 95 special (or whatever the years are). Alan talks all about it. Fletch had his sights on Alan the second he showed up. And that kind of destructive intent doesn't belong in a band. That's why I don't like Fletch.

That, and he should be selling The Clapper on TV infomercials instead of playing in a band =].

-Mark
www.djintrovert.com