ASA AWARDS - Noms Announced

[~Ninthwaver]

Hi,
I have posted the American synthpop Awards Nominations up here:
http://www.lexiconmagazine.com/awards.html

Please vote :-)

Kurt Harland (you may remember him from Information Society) will be hosting the Awards Ceremony at Synthcon!!!
-Dave

[~Mike Gjennestad]

I just voted, can't go to the award ceremony, but at least i can hope that my faves will win!!! Can't wait for the final results.

[~Brand New Idol]

So how do you pick the artists? I could name quite a few that didn't make the list. What was the criteria? I'm sure other bands would like to know that didn't get on the list. Or is it fixed?

[~Ninthwaver]

Hi,
The nomination process for the awards was from Feb through last week. I tried to post it all over the web, but I guess it didn;t get everywhere.
During that time period anyone could vote, the top five vote getters were then picked as "nominees." No fixing, but I suspect Ganymede, Freezepop, and others sure did get their mailing lists active!!!
-Dave

[~Todd Durrant]

Yeah, the number of nominations that certain bands get could be because of their active campaigns to have the fans on their mailing lists hit the voting page. But that's cool too (in my opinion) because it encourages the bands to get involved in the whole process and rewards the most vocal supporters for their support-- sort of a case where whoever has the loudest cheerleaders wins :-)

It may seem "unfair" in some ways, but if you let a small pannel of judges do the nominating, then who would qualify to be such a judge, and wouldn't the finalists then be based solely on their opinions? So, either way, there is going to be certain elements swaying votes, but this way the fans get a louder voice and the bands get the chance to egg their supporters on, all in good fun.

-Todd

[~Brand New Idol]

I'll remember that next year for our record being released this summer/fall.

[~Steven_Intact]

Hmm.. I know that, for instance, for the Oscars, the nominees are based on box office sales and other minor contributing factors. I am by no means invalidating this years selection, in fact, I am VERY excited to see some of the nominees chosen. I am just wondering if there is more of a "subjective" approach with the selection process I.e. Records sales for the year. Just my 2 cents :-)

[~Ninthwaver]

There might be other ways. When we did this last year we originally thought it was best to let fans decide.

Actually Oscars are decided by members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Each section (like Scenic designers) nominates 5 people and then the whole aademy votes on the 5 nominees.

Sales would be hard as there is no way to verify sales (I don;t think we report to soundscan!)

Also- this way fans get to determine what Synthpop is. Otherwise you'd have me and Todd and David sitting there trying to decide if Apop B was "really" synthpop:-) And you don;t want that!!!!
-Dave

[~Steven_Intact]

Yeah I see what you are saying :-) However, With the Academy Awards, it does start with Box Office sales and is then narrowed down by the Judging of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

I can see how it would be harder to track record sales in the Synthpop scene though.

Thanks for the info Dave :-)

P.S. I'm really looking forward to the ceremony at SynthCOn in May!!

[~Peter_Carter]

Yeah, I thought there were some snubs on there, but I remembered that a lot of what I was thinking of was actually released either in 99 or in 2001. The only thing I would have liked to see was "Just Another Day." But I'm happy with the choices, I think they are all very good American synthpop.

Peter

[~Mike Gjennestad]

Well everyone still has a chance to get their vote in decide the outcome. There are several albums, bands, singles etc, that i personnaly would rather have seen, but that is how it goes. Still have hopes that my faves from the selections will win!!! Everyone just vote. And then next year i now know a better way to help any other bands i might want in there to get there.

[~jacoblindsay]

I was hoping Supernova would be one of the nominations. Not only was it one of the best albums of the year but it would rank pretty high in the 'all time' category.

[~jezziebelle]

Hi Folks:

With all due respect to you all..... I know I couldn't have been the only one who was BOMBARDED with emails and banners regarding the ASA awards ... it seems as though any synth site I visited had a banner and I know that I received many reminders from Dave at Lexicon and others via other message boards. Kudos to Dave and company for campaigning so well and good luck to all the nominees. So for those of you complaining about not having been warned... you only have yourselves to blame.

jezziebelle

[~Ninthwaver]

Hi,
I assume you don;t mean the SUpernova that released "Pop As a Weapon," a god awful skate punk cd.
Which one do you mean?
-Dave

[~Brand New Idol]

I don't think anyone is laying blame here, I spend more time working on tunes than looking at synthpop websites. I just think that any band good and bad could just have anyone send in emails and get nominated. Good and bad it isn't what were looking for here, were looking for the Best of the best nominated for innovation, lyrical content, delivery, overall professional sound, and are they selling records! I could have honestly had the 5000+ fan mailing list email in for Joy Machine last year, but I didn't. Since I have nothing new to show for the previous year I wouldn't even have considered asking fans to send in nominations. What i'm saying is that if you want to nominate bands it should be done in a more professional manner. Maybe initially it's a large group of DJ's, producers/bands, magazine reviewers, label owners, that's a more critical ear. The final vote should come to the fans! I think it's been limited to who has the biggest voice but not the best voice. I'm just simply dissappointed by the process, it's a process, not the best process, and it's not showing IMHO the best of the best that came out last year.

Kris
BNI

[~Mike Gjennestad]

BNI that isn't such a bad idea (imho) about having dj's/label owners/ etc. send in nominations to lower the field, and then have a slightly larger field in each catagory to vote from and let the fans decide the finality. that is a good idea.

[~Brand New Idol]

I'm not trying to be insulting to anyone or the bands involved, those bands on the list could be the best group of bands from last year. What I'm saying is that to have anyone, uncles, grandparents, the guy next store who doesnt' know a synth from a guitar to email in for you doesn't necessarily mean that should be the indicator for who the top synthpop artists. I'm not saying that this is completely the worst way of doing it either I'm just saying there's got to be better. I can't be the only one here who feels this way, cause if I am then I gotta be thrown in an insane asylum or ****ing gagged so it'll shut me up. So what your saying is this is the most popular list of artists because people emailed in? ok well now when the next group of votes comes it will be the same group of people emailing in, now basically rigging the vote. So the awards have come down to who has the biggest mailing list and not who has the best album. My point is that if you want to have an award mean something it should mean that your the best, not by how many people you mustered up to vote you into the nominations. I know plenty of people that don't know my music from a horses ass but they'd email in if I asked them to.

I'm not insulting the bands, awards or synthcon, I don't even know how synthcon came up. Synthcon and the awards honestly is one of the best things were doing to move up the profile of synthpop as a viable form of music. I just think leaving the vote up to a email nominated vote is a bit unfair, the merit/quality of the music should be the underlying motive for the awards. We do nothing to further the scene if we don't represent what is the best of synthpop and do it honestly. If we don't then we're doing ourselves a disservice. Like I said before these bands maybe the cream of the crop for this year, lets hope we haven't left any other bands out of the picture who didn't have a ginormous mailing list.


Sorry for another reply I was just replying to whomever said that I was insulting the bands, synthcon, the awards.








[Edited by Brand New Idol on April 11th, 2001 at 02:49 PM]

[~Steven_Intact]

Kris,

Unless someone deleted a response, I only mentioned Synthcon cuz that's where the awards ceremony is being held :-)

Steven

[~Vladimir Valette]

It seems as if this is turning into a MLB All-Star Game debate as to whose opinion really matters most. Let's face facts, if there are no fans to listen and download, steal, and maybe purchase the music then there would be no point to an awards ceremony, it would be just a bunch of critics and djs sitting around in a quorum talking about what artists they like. How much fun is that? First off, there should be no great surprise as to who was nominated, these are for the most part the same artists we were salivating over in the last year. I, too, saw the loads of ads about the nominations so there is no excuse for not voting.
With this all said, I agree with Kris who said that the current method could open the door to fixing in the future. I wouldn't doubt it for a second! This should not turn into some kind of mother-daughter beauty pageant. There should be some sort of even playing field where all areas of the media (I include fans and the record-buying public) can have their say. Sorry if this was long. I guess I'm just making up for lost time in not writing in this forum yet! LOL

Back to stalking mode!

Vladimir Valette

[~Synapse]

I am much too familiar with what happens when you open something like this up to the public for internet-based voting. When Electrogarden was hosting music last year, we too had a rating system which we found out later to be a very bad idea. We didn't realize that it would get as out of hand as it did. We found that artists were flooding the site with votes for themselves. The artists that we felt were of higher quality did not do this because they knew that they didn't have to. They let their music speak for itself and left it up to honest individuals to place judgment. We found that the artists that were placing at the top most of the time were not getting there because they were good, but because they were insuring their placement. Of course let me also state that there were some that placed high by means of legitimate process.

We were sorting through IP addresses to make the determinations. Unfortunately, we pissed off so many people in trying to regulate it that we've had to re-think the way we will be hosting artists in the near future.

So, what should we do? Should we suggest that the ASA winners be determined at SynthCon, opening the voting up to people who attend? We could suggest that each person upon arrival gets a numbered voting form that they must turn in by a designated time in order for their vote to be counted. This is the only way that I can see it being truly fair.

Anyone else?

[~Mike Gjennestad]

Synapse

I think that voting should be open to all. People unable to attend synthcon each year shouldn't be left out. Kris's idea about a selected few people (dj's store owners, labels, magazines etc) should vote and narrow the field down to 5-8 in each catagory. then let everyone vote on those selections. at that point, the creme of the crop should be listed. then let whomever and the dog vote, because all that remain will be great albums/artists etc.

ok that is just my little mind thinking in its little way.

mike

[~Synapse]

That's fine for the future, but I'm talking about the now here. We've already gotten a list of finalists, now we need to insure that the voting is fair from this point on. I'm just trying to come up with solutions for the now.

What I'm mainly trying to do is divert from the email voting method because in fact, the one with the largest email list will definitely win this one.

Thanks,

[~Mike Gjennestad]

oh that is true, see me and my little brain don't think that far through. ;-) oh well, well, i think that i don't have a good answer for that. so i will leave it at that.

[~Gandalfe]

It would be ABSOLUTELY inappropriate to change the method of determining the awards for this year. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

That being said, perhaps what CAN be done, which is not changing the rules so much as adding a new divison, would be to change the name of the current awards to "People's Choice" or somesuch.

We could even add a new set of awards which are defined however we want - I like the idea of having them nominated by professionals, myself, although I don't think DJs should be included - anyone can say they're a DJ, and there's not really any way to check on it. Allowing DJs to be in it is like the Academy allowing projectionists to be voting members. But musicians, producers, label runners, anyone who is directly involved in the creation of the music, they're all good.

[seraphim]

I don't think that DJs should be left out of the initial voting pool and here's the reason why: DJs tend to buy twice (in my case four times) as much music as the average person, so they hear more and can be a better judge of quality over quantity. For the most part, DJs have a good ear (that's part of thier job description after all) and can usually tell an absolutely good tune that will have some staying power over one that will be a flash in the pan. I know personally, I am very picky about my music and the music I spin for people. Hence why there were very few of those "bands of the moment" being played at the venues I worked.

Plus if you leave the DJs out of the initial voting process, it would be a slap in the face (at least to me) because it would send a message that "our" opinions of the music isn't valid and we're the ones out there pushing it for the bands (and labels). This is exactly what we need to stay away from, segregating. We all have to work together to make this scene valid and better the what it was, better than any other. Having Label, Bands and DJs not working hand in hand seems silly to me.

Just my couple of cents.

[~And_Juan]

I was just dumbstruck when I saw that New Concept wasn't nominated.

[~jacoblindsay]

I was referring to Supernova by THE ECHOING GREEN. Blows my mind how they didn't get in there.

[~Gandalfe]

Originally posted by seraphim
I don't think that DJs should be left out of the initial voting pool and here's the reason why: DJs tend to buy twice (in my case four times) as much music as the average person, so they hear more and can be a better judge of quality over quantity. For the most part, DJs have a good ear (that's part of thier job description after all) and can usually tell an absolutely good tune that will have some staying power over one that will be a flash in the pan. I know personally, I am very picky about my music and the music I spin for people. Hence why there were very few of those "bands of the moment" being played at the venues I worked.

Plus if you leave the DJs out of the initial voting process, it would be a slap in the face (at least to me) because it would send a message that "our" opinions of the music isn't valid and we're the ones out there pushing it for the bands (and labels). This is exactly what we need to stay away from, segregating. We all have to work together to make this scene valid and better the what it was, better than any other. Having Label, Bands and DJs not working hand in hand seems silly to me.

Just my couple of cents.



While I can certainly see your point, you can extend that to fans, as well. Why alienate them by saying that their vision isn't just as important? There are (or should be, although sometimes I wonder) just as many fans as DJs, if not more.

The biggest difference between DJs and the groups I mentioned above is that (no offense meant) DJs aren't involved in the creation of the music. We have to draw the line somewhere, if we're going to draw it at all. The other issue, of course, is that it's a lot easier to know who's put out an album than it is to know who plays in all the clubs around the country.

In the interest of complete honesty, I must mention that I'm fairly fine with things the way they are, at least for this year. I share the same concerns about "ballot box stuffing" that the rest of you do, and I think that it should be reworked next year, but I'd prefer to not make any changes this year, for fear of alienating people.

[~Mike Gjennestad]

correct me if i am wrong, but isn't new concept a german band? i guess they would qualify for the international award, but that was full of a lot of good bands too.

[~Midihead]

"The biggest difference between DJs and the groups I mentioned above is that (no offense meant) DJs aren't involved in the creation of the music."

Uh, I'm a DJ and I make music. I've been a DJ since the age of 14. All my DJ friends also make music, and they're good at it too. One reason a DJ has an upper hand is because by nature of the job (or hobby if you will), we're exposed to more music than the general public. We know better than anyone what people want to hear, and we can get a visual confirmation from the music we play at a club. Because most DJ's must stay current with the trends, we expose ourselves to all types of music. This exposure brings diversity into our judgment. We're like travelers that see the world with our eyes while everyone else has to settle for select photos.




[Edited by Midihead on April 13th, 2001 at 03:50 AM]

[~Ninthwaver]

Hi,
Let me say it actually makes me very happy to see this discussion going on! Its great people care about these awards, it seems like last year there was a collective yawn about them :-)

A couple of things
1) If possible, let's take a few minutes at Synthcon, bearing in mind what people have also said here, and see if we can come up with a "better" way to do the nominations and voting next year.

2) Lets not change anything this year. However flawed it may (or may not) be, its a little late to change horses mid stream.

So, let's keep batting ideas around, maybe we can come with something better.

Reminds me of a saying- "Never was a Wedding or a Funeral where someone wasn't offended." Guess we can add Awards too! :-)
-Dave

[~Gandalfe]

Originally posted by Midihead
"The biggest difference between DJs and the groups I mentioned above is that (no offense meant) DJs aren't involved in the creation of the music."

Uh, I'm a DJ and I make music. I've been a DJ since the age of 14. All my DJ friends also make music, and they're good at it too.

But, do you (and they) make music in your roles as a DJ, or outside of that, as an artist? Or do you take the music to the people, getting constant feedback about it from the floor? I certainly hope you can see the difference.

Have you ever seen the movie (or read the book) High FIdelity? There's a scene in there with his girlfriend, when he decides to start his own label, where she says that, up until this point, he has been a professional appreciator. I guess my point is that that is an accurate representation of a DJ. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there is a great leap between creating music and playing music.

The other point of question in this, of course, is those DJs who do re-mixes. I'd say that they are involved in the creative process, however, for purposes of this dicussion, unless these re-mixes were released, they're still professional appreciators.

[~Strasser]

>but there is a great leap between creating music and playing music

As someone who has been a DJ and fronted a band, I agree with this sentiment. More than anything, being a DJ was simply good fun. And while I did provide a much appreciated service, I never looked at getting payed to play other peoples music as a glowing badge of honor, so to speak. Of course this isn't to say that DJ's are not important to the scene -- They are.....

[~Gandalfe]

Originally posted by Strasser
>Of course this isn't to say that DJ's are not important to the scene -- They are.....


Oh, I quite agree. In some ways, more important than the musicians themselves - without the DJs, probably 50% of people wouldn't know about this wonderful music.

[~cosmicity]

Maybe I'll jump in here...

For the record, Cosmicity was nominated for a couple awards this year, and I did not launch a campaign to get the nominations. I did not send mail to my mailing list... I did not have a banner on my website. My only contribution was a mention in the "News" section of my website that nominations were now being accepted.

However, I see nothing wrong with bands asking their fans to vote for them. Why shouldn't they? I say, spread the word. People aren't gonna cast votes for bands they don't like! The people on band mailing lists are not robots that will do whatever they're told. If the folks who read my website don't like the album I released last year, I assure you, they won't vote for me.

The band with the most active fans wins... seems right. I mean, awards like this ARE popularity contests. It's an award! That's how it works! That's why Iris won best band last year, right? It seems pretty clear that they were the most talked-about American synthpop band last year. So they won. Where's the injustice? It's fair.

If you were to reduce the nominations to a select panel of "scenesters", it would THEN become completely unbalanced. A band that took more influence from Pet Shop Boys than Mode would never have a chance with the inside darkwave-only crowd that would be voting. If it was DJs-only, then any band who wasn't dance or club-oriented would be screwed. (And DJs - please no posts about how you listen to much more than uptempo synthpop. The point is, regardless of the diversity of the synthpop you appreicate, it is unfair to rely only on DJ opinion.)

Majority rules. Bands informing their fans about the awards is entirely fair. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it!

*Mark pops another benedryl, backs out quietly and gets back to writing his new album*

mark nicholas
info@cosmicity.com
http://www.cosmicity.com
http://www.mp3.com/cosmicity

[~Color Theory]

Before I started doing CD mastering as my day job, I was the accompanist for a local high school choral program. Typically at choral festivals they have a panel of "expert" judges pick the winners. That's fine, but there's one particular festival that IMHO really does it right. They have three different awards: the judges award (the standard), the directors award (picked by the choir directors), and the students' choice award (picked by, you guessed it, the students). That way, everybody pays attention.

I agree with Mark completely: at some level, it is, and should be, a popularity contest. So there's your "People's Choice" award. It's nice because the bands notify their e-mail lists and a lot of people become aware and involved. Of course, it's not necessarily a legitimate measure of talent or musical accomplishment.

So perhaps the SynthCon attendees could vote for a different award, like the "Synth Addicts Award" or something like that (I picked that name to tie into Todd's club). With one vote per person, and with all the members being fairly immersed in the synthpop microverse, the result might be a more accurate assessment of the current state of synthpop.

Finally, there could be a "Musician's Choice" award, wherein each band that sells a CD through ADD is allowed one vote. I say "each band that sells a CD through ADD" to draw the line somewhere, since pretty much every synth fan is also a musician. Perhaps we could let the label owners vote too ;). I would be interested to see how the musicians' opinions differed from fans'.

Just throwing that out there...

[~Midihead]

If the winners are the result of who has the largest email list, then I will definately not take an award. My mailing list is so teeny tiny small that I'll have to rely on my charm for this one.:D

I'd say that's probably a double-negative, however.

Hey everyone, send me all of your email contacts so I can get some sympathy votes at least.:p

[test]

Originally posted by Ninthwaver
Hi,
I assume you don;t mean the SUpernova that released "Pop As a Weapon," a god awful skate punk cd.
Which one do you mean?
-Dave

this was an old post.. but they are referring to "Supernova" which was an album from "Echoing Green" very fantastic album!

:)

[~DJ Rubicon]

As a music journalist, disc jockey,lyricist, future musician, and over all music appreciator,i have to mention that all of these are so infinetly tangled in
a web of synth madness, i could not get myself out of
if i tried.

The dj_ing makes me happy in a spiritual/surreal
way,the lyrics and music are often inspired by much of the music i spin and listen to.This is all so intermingled
and interconnected in the gridpattern that is my strange
conciousness.

It is deeper still however ,that the electricity that moves the body also provides our power,
inspiration and ability to perform sound manipulation.I would also stress that the finest dj's are the ones who understand the music on a higher level, (not merely for a scene,popularity,sex, what have you)but as a reflection of expressing their own emotions through the
works of other individuals.Evantually, the best dj's become musicians and poets because the longing in
which to express their own visions of beauty and passion become too great.They need to share it through a different medium,this usually is a natural progression.

Hidden in the dark of the sultry synth-clubs,
behind a veil of smoke ,clove and driving beats,beyond the lights and the "shadow-dancers' is the dj. Usually underpaid,just doing it because the music compels them
to and this is the primary steps inside the dark world
of the synth-artist.Others however start differently and make wonderful works for their world, but a great dj
is more than a someone who is obsessed with the hotest and latest. IF she/he has created a world in which you lose yourself in music quite possibly never to return again then truly,the dj is the middle path-crusader, more than just a meager promoter,an artist
on their own level, an emotion manipulator a free-form
passion tour-guide and that in its essence is high art.