Writing frustration:Why don't my drums sound like yours?!

[~Scar Chemik]

I have a question for my esteemed group of synthpop colleagues.

I have a ton of drum synths (mostly soft) that I use when recording. However, most user kits I bring up sound bizarre and useless. Just for once, I would like to hear drums that sound remotely like what is used in 90% of music and not the conjured up demons of some sound designer on a bad acid trip.

Anybody know what Icon of Coil, or Camouflage, or insert any popular band name here use?

What do you normally use for drums?

Do you use a hard or soft option? (sorry I had to throw in a PSB lyric)

HELP!

Thanks bunches. - Scar

[Synthpopalooza]

My drums are for the most part, homemade and synthesized. It all depends on what you want, but specifically:

I have a custom made Yamaha DX-100 patch that gets used in a great portion of my music (specifically the "Technology" song on ENG) ... I also have other Yamaha patches for hi hats and snares that I use sometime. The real sweetness comes when you later drum patches from different synths, that's how you can create unique sounds.

Also: There are tons of classic drum machine samples on http://machines.hyperreal.org ... including the most complete TR-808 sample set in existence ... the closest you can come to owning a TR-808 without buying the machine.

I have since learned about these classic drum machines and who used them:

The Korg KPR-55 and KPR-77: Used by Speak and Spell-era Depeche Mode. (The kick was layered with a synthesized hi-hat off of one of their synths)

The LinnDrum: Lots of classic bands, specifically the Human League, Men Without Hats, Yazoo, and probably most famously Prince, who abused this machine by tuning the sounds down to get his classic drum sounds.

I also recommend the Roland TR series, and of course the Univox Microrhythmer.

[~intervox]

I mix my Alesis DM Pro with Loops and or Megadrums, a sampled CD of all the popular kits...a mesh of them as it were.

Have you tried processing them after recording? A heavy gated snare is always a favorite...compression, etc, will change the sound of it.

Hope this helps! :)

Jeff

[~eurotic]

I sample a lot of drums if I like them. It's a bit of a pain to find them without other sonic clutter, but if you're lucky you can snag one.

That's the easiest way, I find:)

[~scuba_cop]

was a percussionist for nearly 12 years before i began composion electronically
lots of gating here...

(and inevitable abondoned trap kits) but now i find drum processing to be by far the most difficult task...you really gotta fine tune and massage each and every drum sound until it fits perfectly...usually i get tired and impatient with all that so i tend to use completely abstracted rhythm loops using either noise samples and such...however i prefer 8 bit game drum sounds lately...as that sound sound seems to dictacte the over all attitude of my music, sometimes it really doesnt work, but then again it does sound a little different even if it is in a crappy way...

[~paxyll]

The best tools we've used in my project have been:

Sample discs, tweaked with Reaktor and Logic...

[~Joe Ramey]

I use the Alesis D4 sound module..

Joe

[~David Vesel]

I'm close to Joe.....all my drum sounds are from my Alesis QS6. Many are drum kit patches that I've downloaded off the Internet, and many come from the Vintage Synthesizers and EuroDance Q-Cards.

Then I process them. I think that processing really is what makes the difference. You can take a mundane sounding snare drum, for example, and munge it into something completely unrecognizable.

[~ericrypt]

I'm all about the TR909.

[~nwdve]

If it is possible to record each of the drum instruments to a seperate track, you will find it much easier to get a good mix because you can eq and process to your hearts content! A must for a good mix. However, it is easy to go nuts with effects so take it easy with that.

One thing I like very, very much is the plug-in drumagog. It allows you to individually replace drum sounds after they are recorded. A great program.

Personally, I have a hate / love relationship with drum machines lately. My old favorite is the Roland R-8 because of all the assignable outputs. It works and sounds great, but I still end up replacing some of the drum sounds with drumagog.

My first preference now is to work with a "real" drummer friend of mine that plays his arse off. But then again, excellent drummers are hard to find...especially ones who can play with a click track and not sound like it! Keep in mind that I am doing more industrial metal than synthpop...so the real drummer thingy may not apply in your case.

[~scuba_cop]

Originally posted by nwdve
My first preference now is to work with a "real" drummer friend of mine that plays his arse off. But then again, excellent drummers are hard to find...especially ones who can play with a click track and not sound like it! Keep in mind that I am doing more industrial metal than synthpop...so the real drummer thingy may not apply in your case.

tha brings up a thought i had. after some 12 as a percussionist (jazz,rock,orchestral) ive sold my beloved drum work shop kit...but i still have fantastic chops that i would hate to see go to waste. so i wonder if any one ever used electro drum kits via midi...i like to try it but i dont know how practical it may really be...or easy to manage sounds with...does anyone do this and any suggestions of what to use...sorry i dont want to seem like im hijacking this thread, but it kinda relates....

[~Joe Ramey]

For live purposes, I use my Roland V Drums (electronic drums) , but only for live, and with that i'm playing to a live track, so I dont use midi..For recording, I mostly use the Alesis D4 and then use effects if any..

Mike (vocalist/musician of EuroVision) writes drums with his Triton.

Joe

[~pop]

BEEP Wrong
SORRY..
Only one of you got it right. It is all about the mix and the treatment.
Most important tools are EQ, Compression, and Multiband compression. You can even make TR505 tighter than any drum machines in the market if you mix your drums in a right way.
Drums have to sit perfectly in the frequency range without colliding too much with others.

[~scuba_cop]

Originally posted by pop

Drums have to sit perfectly in the frequency range without colliding too much with others.
explain? if you will...(like as in locating an isolated freq, least prominent by other tracks in the overall composition...?

[~Neural Shock]

I think pop meant the EQ's and compression of the drums will depend on what other sounds are in the song (synths, bass, pads, vocals) and on individual drums sound you assemble (snare, hats, kick, toms) I thinks that there is no magic formula, as songs can be very different in nature. The thing is to experiment over and over, it take a lot of time of trial and error to come up with good mixes, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes you EQ for hours and it never comes up right until you change the bass sound or or something else. Of course in time you get experience to pinpoint the problems a little faster, one of the things I found (but I'm not sure cause I aint no mixing master) is to clean up (reduce) the low mids, approximately between those frequencies: 250 Hz to 1 kHz.

[~pop]

Originally posted by Neural Shock
I think pop meant the EQ's and compression of the drums will depend on what other sounds are in the song (synths, bass, pads, vocals) and on individual drums sound you assemble (snare, hats, kick, toms) I thinks that there is no magic formula, as songs can be very different in nature. The thing is to experiment over and over, it take a lot of time of trial and error to come up with good mixes, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes you EQ for hours and it never comes up right until you change the bass sound or or something else. Of course in time you get experience to pinpoint the problems a little faster, one of the things I found (but I'm not sure cause I aint no mixing master) is to clean up (reduce) the low mids, approximately between those frequencies: 250 Hz to 1 kHz.

BINGO!!!!
Most of us use bass heavy patches, lots of shi.t get blured in the
low mid range. You just have to play with it. Do a demo mix and walk around the room, listen to tracks in the kitchen, check how they sound 100 feet away, etc.... Electronic music has sooo many choices of sounds that there are no rules in a mix. You just have to trust yourself. The feel and flow of the sounds are so important. Anything go in mixing Electronica. It is lot harder
to mix Electronic music than Rock. Of course, Rock is harder to record.

[~cliffwalk]

Actually EQing "Zipper Style" for thing like cymbals really helps add punch.

What I mean by that is to EQ every channel and isolate frequencies both by reducing on every other channel and increasing on one. I use a very simple parametric EQ that comes with Sonar and it has made a world of difference in getting it to sound like Stew (as opposed to cream soup)

dave

[~pop]

Originally posted by cliffwalk
Actually EQing "Zipper Style" for thing like cymbals really helps add punch.

What I mean by that is to EQ every channel and isolate frequencies both by reducing on every other channel and increasing on one. I use a very simple parametric EQ that comes with Sonar and it has made a world of difference in getting it to sound like Stew (as opposed to cream soup)

dave

YES. SPICE IT UP WITH SOME RED HOT PEPPERS..

[~scuba_cop]

frustrating tho when you nuture to many aspects of the composition and inevitably ended up pushing the sonic envelope in all degrees...thus you get no where...nothing particular stands out, just everything it accentuated...

and yeah listening to a composition from different room helps alot...as well at it does to listen to it at low levels

Originally posted by cliffwalk
Actually EQing "Zipper Style" for thing like cymbals really helps add punch.

whats "zipper style"?

[~WorldUnderFire]

Zipper style. That's like parachute pants or Michael Jackson's old "Thriller" jacket.

[~Scar Chemik]

Hey, I wanted to drop a note of thanks to Synthpopaloosa. I spent a great deal of time over the weekend at that website downloading the samples for the older kits. I then brought each of them into Battery and set up proper maps for each.

I also bought a fairly well reviewed 8000 drum sample CD from http://www.dorumalaia.com

I think the main problem was that I was using too many pure electronic drum sounds that lacked true bass drum punch, and true snare drum *crack*. I am switching to samples to complement the electronic noises.

Thanks to all for their input. I am about to start another thread that should get some great conversation going.

You all rock!

Scar