doubts about EBM live shows

[~2skinny]

hi everyone!i've been at a live show by hocico a couple of nights ago which was totally devastating - a great show in facts...but it left me wondering if EBM liveshows are always worth the ticket price after all...that one was for sure, but all the same it seems to me that a little too many electro-EBM acts turn out pretty deluding on stage. sometimes i think this kind of music only comes off at its best either on my earphones or in clubs, as though it's just impossible to convey all its strength in a liveshow;but on the other hand, there's a few acts which make me change my mind everytime i see them play (suicide commando first), so i just keep wondering...
what's your opinion about it?

[~epsilon minus]

If your idea of a good live show is hearing people perform music live, EBM shows = bad. If your idea of a good live show is seeing a kareoke fashion show EBM shows = good.

Thought I'd get that in before this thread explodes into The Eternal Debate...

[seraphim]

A good portion of the electronic bands out there don't perform live for several reasons, some valid, some not. I know this first hand because when I was in the promotions game, I had a few of the bands tell me that the equipment didn't have to be plugged in, nor did it even have to be real...so long as it looked the part. Personally, lately when I have seen electronic bands lately, I have left feeling very bored.

I agree with Bogart's assessment above but I'll add that I don't mind if a band doesn't play completely live so long as they do something to entertain me by way of a performance. I paid my money so yes, I want to see the monkey dance. Don't just stand there, even I can ¤¤¤¤ing do that.

[~conditioner]

You got to play something live. Sequence some stuff, but don't just bull¤¤¤¤ us. Besides, it's FUN to play electronics live and on stage. It wouldn't kill VNV to hire a keyboard player and do some stuff live.

[seraphim]

Yes, I always found it a bit odd that they're a fairly heavy keyboard band yet...as many times as I have seen them, I have never seen a keyboard player. At least he keeps us distracted with sometimes funny stories.

[~epsilon minus]

Hell, they don't need a keyboard player, VNV Nation's keyboards could play THEMSELVES onstage. Set arpeggiators for auto-pilot.

[~Human Clone]

Yeah, the last couple of EBM shows I have been to, I have left early out of boredom.

I am promoting the Razed In Black show here in Toronto on Thursday night. It is going to be nice to see a full band for a change...

[~melibita]

I agree with you guys, it can be very boring if the guys are just standing around and/or whining into the mic. I really want to see Hocico play, they pull out all the equipment right there.

[~rivetbadtz]

My illusions were crushed in the earlyish mid 90's after a few industrial shows...but yeah, its all kareoke EBM trance baby! woo.

I dunno...I had more fun at a $30 kareoke show(VNV/Apop in sept 2000) then at a lot of rock shows.

I dunno, I admire VNV, its like 'hey, we dont rpetend to have a standin 'keyboardist' with an unplugged Virus"....if only all 'EBM' bands could put on such a rockin good show.

but yeah, a LOT of electronic shows(synthpop, industrial, techno, etc) are tumbleweed city 'live'. So unless ya want yer illusions crushed, beforewarned before ya go...as only a few bands can pull of the edge of yer seat futuristic cabaret show.

[~2skinny]

glad someone joined in to share my doubts... actually, i think seraphim hits the point i wanted to xpress: no problems if it all has to be a "karaoke fashion show", but then at least i want it to be performed better than it normally is!!!

[~eurotic]

You can really tell when a band is playing live, like Hocico, opposed from a band like And One, VNV or God Module. There's a little more unpredictability and energy to it, at least to me.

So what are some GOOD live bands? (who PLAY live, or at least put on a damn good "live" show) And bands you're a MEMBER of, live with or hang with do NOT count:

Iris
E-Craft
Seabound
Apop (I think Groth is a dill, but MAN I had a good time at their show)
ThouShaltNot
Bella Morte
The Cruxshadows
B00le

(and obviously these all aren't EBM bands)

[seraphim]

A few of the best electronic shows that I have been to would have to include: Snog, Stromkern, Beborn Beton, Elegant Machinery, Provision, Cruxshadows, Pop Will Eat Itself, Atari Teenage Riot and Icon of Coil, just to name a few. Though the absolute best show, for raw power and magnitude, would be Einsturzende Neubauten. Not electronic but they should be mentioned.

[~eurotic]

Man, I'd have LOVED to see ATR and PWEI, especially ATR on their first album tour.

[~DJ_Desmodus]

If the vocalist puts their heart into it, and if the crowd knows the songs (which only really happens with well known acts) then the all-backing-track shows can be lots of fun. Otherwise, yeah, pretty boring.

Haujobb put on a hell of a live show during their last full U.S. tour. I was very pleasantly surprised.

[seraphim]

Originally posted by eurotic
Man, I'd have LOVED to see ATR and PWEI, especially ATR on their first album tour.

I saw ATR a few years back for their "Burn, Berlin, Burn" album tour and it was quite insane to say the very least. I believe that they played with Shizou and someone else on the DHR label. The most memorable thing from that show was Alec kicking some guy in the face for telling him that no one cares about his politic and he should shut up and play more music (Consolidated anyone?). Funny because if that person had known anything about ATR, he would have never made such an idiotic statement. ATR=Politics.

Now the PWEI tour was completely mental, they had the most energy of ANY band I have seen before or after. While I was happy to had finally seen them, I was sad that it was for thier last tour ever, the "Dos Dedos Mis Amigos" tour. They were all over the place and spot on.

[~Cap661]

So far the best band i've seen live would have to be bile, they were truly intense and had some great imagery onstage as well.Wasn't expecting too much from them, but was pleasantly surprised.

I just saw Razed in Black last Sunday, and I must say I was shocked after I heard the first song. They are much harder than I expected, especially after their trance dominated last album(which is a good thing). You are in for a great show Human Clone!

Other very worthy mentions include the cruxshadows, melotron, black sabbath, covenant, and the rather disturbing bozo porno circus(probably the first and last time i will ever see a girl put needles through her breasts).:)

[~conditioner]

Best live shows I've seen

Apop-(Yes, they do play live for the most part)
Prefuse 73-(just slammin with those electronic sample pads)
Groove Armada-(no backing tracks) justa mazing
Babyland- Fook ya! Drills and power saws on Macintosh
Covenant-a lot already on minidisc, but some awesome energy and a fun show
Bowie-Earthling tour. Drum and bass fantastic rock
Plaid- Laptoptastic (the shrooms helped)
and of course the Mode! 86-98 and Exciter tour

[~Neural Shock]

It's not really EBM that is the problem, the electro-scene in general is karaoke of fake (trance, drum and bass, gabber, synthpop, industrial), even rock bands are to some point, not because you see a stage full of musician mean that there all actually playing, most just double the dat or the adat and franckly, it cannot be anyother way, most electro bassline or arpegiated synths cannot be played humanly, you cant expect for an electro show to be about musician performance, it's a show in the real sense of the word, I dont even get this post, it's always been that way and everybody know's about it, so why start complaining, that the nature of electro music, if you want musician performance, go to a classical or a jazz show.

[~conditioner]

Originally posted by Neural Shock
It's not really EBM that is the problem, the electro-scene in general is karaoke of fake (trance, drum and bass, gabber, synthpop, industrial), even rock bands are to some point, not because you see a stage full of musician mean that there all actually playing, most just double the dat or the adat and franckly, it cannot be anyother way, most electro bassline or arpegiated synths cannot be played humanly, you cant expect for an electro show to be about musician performance, it's a show in the real sense of the word, I dont even get this post, it's always been that way and everybody know's about it, so why start complaining, that the nature of electro music, if you want musician performance, go to a classical or a jazz show.

sorry bud, but EVERYBODY does not know how it goes. The large percentage of people who go to shows, electro or not, do NOT know how stuff is set up or works. And you CAN expect an electro show to be about musician performance. A number of bands mentioned play their instruments over a couple if any backing tracks. Not to toot my own horn, but if you get down to L.A., my brother and I will treat you to an almost all live show. All electronic, all the time.

[~Human Clone]

Most EBM/electronic shows that I have seen roughly range from $10 - $20. So basically you get what you pay for.

I paid $90 plus $15 for parking to see Depeche Mode on their last tour and it sucked arse.

I've been to hundreds of concerts in my life, so I am usually not easily impressed.

The Blue Man Group did a show here about 4 months ago and it was awesome. I highly recommend going to see them if they ever come your way.

[~conditioner]

Blue Man's good, but why did you think the mode show sucked arse? Given...it was more down tempo, but they had a great time and I did too. Crowd seemed to eat it up, I saw them at Anaheim, where did you see them? Staples Center? I heard that show was pretty weak.

[~Human Clone]

Originally posted by conditioner
Blue Man's good, but why did you think the mode show sucked arse? Given...it was more down tempo, but they had a great time and I did too. Crowd seemed to eat it up, I saw them at Anaheim, where did you see them? Staples Center? I heard that show was pretty weak.

I have seen MODE on every tour since Black Celebration. I don't know I guess for me, I've seen them get old on stage. I use to get really excited about concerts, I don't find myself that way anymore. So maybe it was more the way I interpreted the show than them actually sucking... There were a heckofalot of people having a great time.

I still go to a lot of concerts, I am going to see Genitorturers and Hanzel Und Gretyl tonight.

[~conditioner]

I still go to a lot of concerts, I am going to see Genitorturers and Hanzel Und Gretyl tonight.

that should be fun. That chick is crazy

[~melibita]

I have been to a lot of gigs that aren't electronic (ska and punk gigs, some boring and some that were a blast), but I have seen these bands to name a few:

Cenobita: lots of energy, was really fun
Das Ich: was alright but the crowd was boring
Soft Cell: Don't get me started, I had trouble speaking for weeks after going to that show... (Best band ever!)
Covenant: had a lot of energy, it was so much fun.
Melotron: seeing them live converted me into a fan. The singer is very talented.

KMFDM and Pig are supposed to be playing next Wednesday in Los Angeles and next Friday in Anaheim. Has anyone seen these bands yet and what did you think? I am thinking of going to the show in Anaheim.

[~eurotic]

I'm gonna second Senor Clone's statement on dM. I wasn't too impressed with their last tour. Course, it'd be very hard to beat the Violator Tour.

And I'm gonna add SVD and Christ Analogue to this list. They just played here and both kicked A$$!

(so did The Gothsicles [I kid you not], but since I know them and, well, performed with them briefly tonight it doesn't count. Oh well:))

-Matt
DJ Eurotic

[~2skinny]

ok, here are some points i'd better clear up:

1- i don' expect musician performance rather than fake karaoke or anything when i go to an electro liveshow: i expect a GOOD performance, nothing more. and using computers to perform live music does NOT mean you have to bore the audience stiff.

2- the price problem: well, that's got more to do with the situation down here. italy's not very supportive towards underground electro, which means that if you really want to see some live shows you have to drive some hundreds kms most of the times, or even go abroad. seems things are starting to change now, but still the money problem isn't so irrelevant i think.
maybe i'll change my mind if i ever move to LA.

some good live acts i'd recommend

suicide commando - hocico - das ich - NON/boyd rice - soft cell - sonar - london after midnight - seabound - covenant - neubauten/b.bargeld solo - deutsch nepal

[~A04]

At one point, I was a vocalist, and I preferred to have the music programmed because I knew that it was going to be perfect for me. When I go to shows, I no longer have any expectations except to be entertained. I've seen shows and watched cables plugged into the backs of all the instruments - funny, no power cables - but that didn't take away from the show. Orbital just stood and looked at their keyboards, but I remember walking away impressed...

If the band has no visual appeal, the vocalist stands behind the mike, AND the music is programmed, I'll rant. Give me something I can't get from my Windows Media Player!!

[~Neural Shock]

A lot of people seem to agree that Covenant is great live, lot's of energy, I dont know if things have changed but when I saw them in Montreal, there where just these 2 guy's singing and running around the stage, absolutely no musician, so in the end, if poeple in general liked it so much, this mean that in general people dont care about musician (intrumental) performance because you cant get more Karaoke than Convenant, from what I've seen.

When you see there electro bands with one keyboard player or even two, you cant expect the guy to scrool throught is keyboard to replicate all the sounds in a song that were created from different synths and program, and they are so many, and a lot of electronic music contanis a lots of layers of synth in a song. Lets say you created a song with reason and Cubase with a couple of VST's and outside synths like the JP8000, Virus , AN1x ect, you cant expect this to be replicated on stage with one or two synths, the dat backgroung is needed.

And since the dark electro scene is not a glorious one, in the sence of money, for most band that do go on tour, they need to keep the number of person and equipment to minimun, it's just impossible to afford a full stage presence. When most write their music, they wont limit themself to writing so they can replicate it live with minimum budget, the only place where most are free to let themself loose in in their home studio.

The strentgh of this scene remains on home budget studio (home made album's), wich most people spend most of their money to get the gear they need, now when one get's to go on tour with almost no budget or ressources (because they're broke from spending for equipment and self producing themself + ¤¤¤¤ promotor that rips of the bands), it would be kind to the audience to understand that most dont have the ressource to build a full on show (they gave their heart and money out just getting the album released) , so the only thing you can expect, is the energy and passion they give out to the crowd.

[~A04]

I heard a story of an artist who came to Japan with only a CD-R (no questions at immigration about visa status!) and assembled a full band of people he knew here to pull off the performance. I guess it worked because I haven't heard anything to the contrary.