Gahan puts Gore in his place!

[~Gahan_Man]

Dave Gahan has proved that Martin really will always need him much more then he needs him!

While in DM they both have been super success ,solo only one could cut it.

Marts solo career started years ago with the EP ''Counterfiet''
which entered the UK Top 100 singles chart at a dismal #51.

In 2003 he tried again and again failed with another flop single
''Stardust'' which missed the Top 40 and stalled at #44.

He fisrt full-lenghed solo album ''Counterfiet 2'' failed to chart in the UK Top 100 albums chart altogether due to poor sales!

It came in a number 102.


Dave Gahan's solo career took off though with his debut single ''Dirty Sticky Floors'' which became a Top 20 hit on the UK Top 100 singles chart at #18, it also made it to #3 on the US Dance chart.

It was also a Top 10 hit all over Europe including Italy,Denmark,
Germany and others.

The song also made it to #3 on the World Top 30 dance chart.

His album ''Paper Monsters'' was also a success becoming a Top 40 success at #35.

The second single ''I Need You'' was Gahans second consective Top 30 hit single at #27 in the UK. It was # 5 on the US Dance charts, # 23 in the Europe Top 40 chart, #17 on the World Trance chart and 39 on the Top40-Charts.com World Top 100 .

This success with backed up by a 71 date world tour.

[~conditioner]

so because he made it on the charts, the lead songwriter has to be the ¤¤¤¤¤ of the "frontman"?
Hey I'm all for success of my rock gods, but c'mon. Counterfeit and Counterfeit 2 kills Gahans solo stuff. Even though 2 is covers, it's still much more soulfull and intricate. The masses will always go for the prettier face.
They both need each other. And Andy needs a metronome.
I love em all

[~Jupiter 4]

Just a warning, Gahan Man--Stephanie is going to come after you!!

[~Joe Ramey]

I liked Gore's too solo albums, though they arent his originals..

I wish he would put out an original solo album, but I guess that wouldnt sound too much different than a DM album, since he writes all the music and even sings lead on some..Which is why he chooses covers..

I liked Gahans solo..Not bad for a debut, and i'm sure he'll release more now that he has proven to himself that he could do it..

[~nwdve]

Both of the these guys are good solo. I like both of their solo albums but I much prefer them as a team.

By the way...chart success doesn't always = quality. Last time I checked Beyonce and the horrid White Stripes were doing quite well on the charts...ugh!!!!!

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by Joe Ramey
I liked Gore's too solo albums, though they arent his originals..

I wish he would put out an original solo album, but I guess that wouldnt sound too much different than a DM album, since he writes all the music and even sings lead on some..Which is why he chooses covers..

I liked Gahans solo..Not bad for a debut, and i'm sure he'll release more now that he has proven to himself that he could do it..

That's the thing with the way DM puts their albums together. (Since they're all pretty much programmed) An album of "Martin Gore Originals"... is... well... It's a Depeche Mode album :) Period. If you want Martin Gore's songwriting -- Depeche Mode. (not to discredit Alan Wilder or David's contributions)

As for comparing the two albums.

Apples to Lugnuts.

Dave wanted a pop album.

Martin arranged a covers album.

I could have predicted the outcome. Musically I think Martin actually accomplished something... it took me a while to hear it but I do think he grew by doing CF2.

Dave, if anything, just had his falsely positioned rock star ego bolstered even more and maybe learned how to survive in a studio with a different collection of people kicking him in the ass.

JMHO,

Dave

[~ericrypt]

All I'm gonna say on this subject is that although Depeche Mode as a band are the BEST! The best band in the world in my opinion, each solo project from the members (Alan, Dave and Martin) have their own unique style to them that I enjoyed. I take my hat off to them for trying to do something different and to explore their own personal talents. Even if I did'nt like the alnums they put out, I'd still give em' credit for trying. But I did like the stuff they put out.

[~nwdve]

Lets play Master & Servant!

Master = Martin Gore

Servant = David Gahan

Just a joke guys!!!!! Please don't kill me. I like 'em both. But it seems to me that a lot of people (maybe even Gahan) seem to think this is the arrangement in the band. Maybe Dave should have a little more input...I don't know. It might be time to see if he could add a little more spark to the next album. It couldn't hurt. Of course...Gore's songwriting ideas are unique and special. So maybe "leave well enough alone". Hell, I don't know. I'm sooo confused!!

Boy I sure do miss the creativity of Wilder!!!

[~voodooru]

It facinates me that some people here love 'synthpop' but yet dismiss an indie band's pure synthpop album (THE POSTAL SERVICE) while praising a semi-electronic, pop-blues-rock effort of Dick Gahan. LOL!! What gives????

Martin's C2 is a great modern synthpop album. Mellow, yes. Brilliant, yes. It's a mellow DM album w/o DG on vox....

bleh!

[r.]

[test]

Oh, please!! Then, if Paper Monsters is *such* a whopping success did Reprise have to put it on sale and do a little campaign to get people to buy it???? WHY was Dave NOT able to sell out ONE single show here in the USA????????????? He couldn't sell out Las Vegas, which MODE did in minutes. He surely did NOT sell out Los Angeles either.


Here is the Reprise promotion for Paper Monsters:



"EVERYTHING YOU LOVE IS GAHAN.


Dave Gahan's solo debut, Paper Monsters, is in stores, waiting patiently for you to bring it home. The poor little disc is starting to wonder where you are. We explained that you were busy with the Dave Gahan player, listening to the album and watching the video for "Dirty Sticky Floors." That quieted it down but you should go soon. You need each other.

So there... the disc misses you! Doesn't that make you feel bad, little fan..."

This was taken from depeche-mode.com directly. Um, yeah, it's such a success that they had to market his disc like this.

Martin's album was a covers album. You cannot compare it to Dave's. If you truly want to compare a Martin penned album to a Dave one, we all know who would win that one hands down.

Gahan puts Gore in his place, I think NOT! It seems the general public has put Dave in HIS place.

[~synth-master]

I love these threads :)

Once again I find myself reading another one of these Dave Vs. Martin stuff.

Lets put it this way....I hated both solo albums with a passion, although if I had to choose one to listen, it would be C2.

But like others have said, the two albums are not comparable.

If Martin did a solo album (no covers), it would sound like a recent DM album (Ultra or Exciter) since Alan is not there to offer his musical genius.

So, the qustion is, do you guys think that the few tracks that Martin sang on Ultra and Exciter better than Dave's Crapola???

I think the answer to that is easy....Martin rolls and smokes mr. gahan*hee hee*

Dave always got lots of attention !!! Martin would write all the songs, yet Dave was what everyone wanted...WHY??? because his is the front man and a good looking one too.

Therefore its not always talent that sells music, its lots of other things like good looks and attitude which dave has.

When it comes to music and songwritting, Dave has NO talent aside for a voice that he is loosing fast ;)
but when it comes to shaking his booty on stage, he has all the girls going crazy and can accually put on a great show.

[test]

I LOVE Ultra and Exciter!!!! Both albums are in my top 5 dM albums. I can see why some people don't like Exciter. I cannot understand why people don't like Ultra??? It's a fantastic album.

[~platformone]

I think Dave's inexperience ( at least compared to Martins) shows a lil bit. But where Dave really takes the lead is he still seems to feel something. Martin seems so empty...so bland.

I miss Alan.

[~synth-master]

I like Ultra, but I think it lacks something big....and that is ALAN.

Ultra has some great song writting but bad music. Martin is a good musician, but he is no SYNTHMASTER *gigles*.

Without Alan, DM does not exist for me.

DM died after SOFAD.

[test]

Martin empty?? Hmmm. That's an interesting point of view. I saw him twice on his mini tour. I would not say he was empty, but really full of passion. I just wish that more people could have had the chance to see him.

[~conditioner]

DM died after SOFAD.



Did it die after Vince left too? C'mon- it started with Martin and Andy, might even end with it.

Love music.

Ultra has some great song writting but bad music


Dude, you live in Texas!!! Home of the twangy guitar!!!! Ultra's full of it, and a phenomenal piece of music altogether. (sans it's no good). Love thieves, sister of night, Insight? DM is not synth pop. They did it. They moved on.

[test]

Is the music bad just because Alan wasn't in the band? I guess I just don't hear Ultra like you do. I think it's a magnificent piece of work. The music rocks in my car!

[~synth-master]

Compare the music of Ultra to Violator, Music for the Masses, Black Celebration.

Can you hear all the complexity that is in all the albums that Alan put togather musically?

The music is just too plane after Alan left. Its mellow, dark and very simple (pure Martin). All the songs sound very similar in format with little variation. Alan added alot of spice and complexity to their sound by making DM stand out amoung all electronic-pop bands of the time.This is something that both Martin and Dave have admit to. As Dave well put it in his interview, "Alan was the sound architect of the band"

[~Efreak]

So, I guess we are measuring an artist's success by sales, rather than artistic merit and passion?
Sorry, Gahan_Man. That argument is wearing thin with those of us who tend to buy albums that don't even CHART.
I like them both. Who made it a friggin' rule that we have to choose, anyway???

Jamie

[~ericrypt]

Whew! Gettin' HOT in here! Look, A Broken Frame kicked ass! No Alan on that album, Violator kicked ass, much Alan influence in that one!, Ultra kicked ass (can you dismiss "Sister of Night" and call yourself a Mode fan?) but no Alan, so either way you look at it, Mode rules with or without. Now, the way I see it, they can crank out any solo crap they want, they could poo on a plate, serve it up piping hot and I would'nt care, UNLESS they were NEVER going to do another Mode album again, and until that very day they officially call it quits, then I may, MAY! give a rat's booty about whether or not Dave's album sells better than Martin's, but probably not, I'll be too old to care......

[test]

I compared the music of the albums that you listed and still I don't see how Ultra is a bad album. The music still rocks my world on those albums, with Alan or without. I love the music on BC, MFTM and Ultra. I guess I just don't get it. Oh well! :)

They are going to be going into the studio next year, with a tour in 2005. Start saving up your pennies. I know that I will be teaching summer school next summer just for the tour in 2005. I am going to do at *least* 16 shows, if they do a summer tour here in the US. I also plan on being no worse than 12th row at any of the shows I go to. I also plan on front row for at least 2 shows, with the last LA show being in the front!

[~ericrypt]

Speaking of Mode, does anyone know where I can get a good copy of "Everything Counts" from the 1990 Violator Tour? Been trying to download one FOREVER and can't seem to find it on the web either. Help!

[test]

I have a few recordings from that tour, but nothing like a soundboard. There are no soundboards that have been leaked. They do exist from what I have heard though. sigh! Email me if you want anything.

[~ericrypt]

I know MODyssey has the soundboards, I went over to his cubicle at work the other day and listened to them, very cool, but not what I'm looking for. I remember it's the only version of the song that ever made me cry, it was just so great, and I WILL, mark my words, WILL find it! That's what I love about Mode sometimes, THE HUNT! Thank you though Stephanie, you are cool!

[test]

Well, good luck in finding it! I know many a Devotee wants to find a World Violation soundboard.

What do you think of the Devotional version of Everything Counts, the trip hop version? THAT is a killer version!!!

[test]

i like them both , dave and martin make good records, but i like them togethet the most;)

i also can't understund how many people don't like "ultra" stephanie is one of my fave :nod:

[~ericrypt]

Yes, The Devotional version is great!!! I love to listen to it driving.
Ultra is such a great album, my fav is hard to pick, but probably Sister of Night
Have you guys checked out the remixes for Dave's album? My God! I am SO dancing in front of my stupid moniter right now! here's the ones that get me shakin my money maker lately.....

Dirty Sticky Floors (The Passengerz Dirty Club Mix)
I Need You (Gabriel & Dresden Unplugged Mix)
Stay (The Sun Mix)

[~Efreak]

Originally posted by ericrypt


Dirty Sticky Floors (The Passengerz Dirty Club Mix)


Agreed! The Passengerz can make magic with anything! They have taken good songs by Cher, and Daniel Bedingfield -- and made them extraordinary. :) "Dirty Sticky Floors" didn't need any doctoring, but I love variations... Probably why I own so many remixes. That's one great thing about remixes... If you start to tire of one version of a song, you can latch onto another and it gets taken in a whole new direction. :)
Jamie

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by marion banner
i like them both , dave and martin make good records, but i like them togethet the most;)

i also can't understund how many people don't like "ultra" stephanie is one of my fave :nod:

What kills Ultra and Exciter for me, frankly, are two things:

(a) I think Martin's been in a songwriting slump since SOFAD. Ultra and Exciter simply had less songs that I really found at all worthy of their name.

(b) I think Martin had an idea as to where he wanted to steer the sound without Alan. I don't think he truly figured out the secret recipe until C2. Hint: I think the sound on C2 is all about putting the vocals in a very intimate space in the mix. Exciter's sound would have had more dimension had they mixed the vocals more prominently with less effects.

just my honest opinions,
dave

[test]

Originally posted by marion banner

i also can't understund how many people don't like "ultra" stephanie is one of my fave :nod:

I am glad that I am not the only one who loves Ultra. :)

[~nwdve]

Ultra is an ok album. I don't think it stacks up to the others, but that is just my opinion. I think if I'd never heard the sofad I might appreciate it more.

Does anybody know why Wilder won't come back to DM? Maybe someday we'll all be treated to a DM comeback with Alan and Vince!!!! Wouldn't that be amazing?

[test]

Because:

He feels that he wasn't appreciated enough.
Problems with Fletch.

Yes, he worked his butt off for the band. Yes, he wasn't *told* enough by Martin how much he was valued.

There were also problems with he and Fletch as well. Alan felt that he and Fletch shouldn't earn the same amount of money in the band. That caused problems.

It's just all an ego thing, if you ask me. Yes, Martin AND Alan both have egos. Both are stubborn. Both need to sit down and talk. Alan showing up to see Martin in London on his solo tour was a big step, but who knows where it all will lead. I think that Alan is just burnt on music. Mute never promoted him like they should have with his Recoil work. I can understand his frustration with that.

[~melibita]

Just because Gahan got higher sales and higher positions on the charts doesn't mean he is better. I personally could not sit through 3 songs from his solo album.
Britney Spears is always so high on the charts. Does that mean her music is better than Gahan's or Gore's? ;)

[~MODvox]

Well, this is an exciting thread!

Alright, my turn:

I LOVE Ultra!!! I also love both Paper Monsters and Counterfeit2. I'm just glad ANY of them are doing anything. But I must say that if I was "staring down the barrel of a gun" and had to choose, I'd choose Martin's abilities over Dave's. That's a no brainer.

Case and point:
Counterfeit2 - Candy Says

I think some people want that old Mode sound back, but personally, I like the fact that they don't sound like that anymore. I think I would tire of the same thing all the time. I like surprises, so the evolution of DM's sound is a welcome treat for my ears.

I like to compare Martin and Dave like this:

Martin is the soul, Dave is the body. Both elements have their pull, but when you put them together, that's when you get something special. Body and Soul, baby.

James MODvox

[test]

Originally posted by melibita
Just because Gahan got higher sales and higher positions on the charts doesn't mean he is better. I personally could not sit through 3 songs from his solo album.
Britney Spears is always so high on the charts. Does that mean her music is better than Gahan's or Gore's? ;)

Heh! I could not have said it any better myself. :D

[~melibita]

Rating someone on how high they are on the charts is superfluous. There are lots of good artists that will never see themselves on the charts, no matter how talented they are.

[~Dingerz]

Listen, David put his heart and soul into touring and promoting his album. The chart success is a by-product of that. I am happy for him. And don't forget - EVERY band/artists needs to promote to sell. Promoting and offering extras does NOT mean they are "desparate" for people to buy them. DM did TONS of non stop touring and TV interviews to become what they've become, and David is following the same route for his solo album. Good for him. After all, people will not buy your album if they don't know it exists or if they assume it isn't good. I mean face it, how many times have any of you ever not thought twice about a new relese by someone and then heard a clip and though "hrm..what's that? I'll investigate.." That's what promotion is all about. It is good for both artists and fan. So really, David's promotion has done him well. And if you like the album or not, you have to congradulate him for that success. It isn't a fluke.

I like both solo albums. I guess I am lucky for that. Not everyone can be pleased. Some hate david's album and love mart's, some hate mart's album and love david's and some dislike both. So be it.

And DM did not die after 1993 - ooh no! Ultra and Exciter are both great albums. Though I find it odd how all of a sudden so many people look fondly on Ultra. When Exciter came out it had waaaaay more praise by the fanbase than Ultra did when it came out. So that's why I find it so interesting. I personally prefer Exciter more.

People may not like DM after alan left but you are not the majority - though so many who feel that way always seem to think think they are... Not liking DM after alan left just means you don't like the direction they went in after - not that it sucks. Nothing truly sucks, it's all personal preference. Some people moved on not liking what DM made after 1993, while new fans hopped on board. It's all a cycle. As long as DM recruit new fans it's all good.

And I am so looking forward to DM's next album!

Tara

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by melibita
Rating someone on how high they are on the charts is superfluous. There are lots of good artists that will never see themselves on the charts, no matter how talented they are.

the charts are merely a reflection on the ability of the hype machine behind the band's ability to get UNITS SOLD. Is that a good metric to live by for people trying to make their living in the "biz", fark yeah...

is it an indication of talent, ability, subjective metrics of good/bad ... NO. Not even arguably.. just NO... nothing to do with each other...

but, hey, if i was going to try and make money making music I'd do what other people do. I'd do what sells. There's no magic to what sells... and there's no lack of talent to help you make even the stupidest ideas marketable.

Remember, musicians don't control the music market... Neither do listeners. Media marketers do. And that's just how capitalism is so stop any whining now it wont change unless we ditch capitalism.

dave

[~d3lions]

What about those of us, who feel both Cd's didnt get our attention??? Is not about the market sales is aboout the MUSIC. I personally didnt like either one of them. I hope the new DM record is better then EXCITER.

BRING ALAN BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~NightHalo]

In my humble opinion, one cannot compare Martin's cover solos to David's album. When Martin releases his own stuff solo, then we can compare...

[Electroswank]

Yep, heres' me again - agreeing wholeheartedly with Cliffwalk. He's said it exactly; Units sold - thats' what relativity we're talking about with the Dave vs Martin chart game. It all depends on airplay, how it was marketed and to what audience... Its easier to market something more commerical rather then an art record. which is how i view Martins' release... Tho I think musically it was much more creative and interesting then Daves'.

Its obvious that Dave made a more "user friendly" album that can be a stand alone rather then a covers' cd, which to be honest, i am sure only really means something mostly to the Depeche Mode Fanbase. Theres clearly 'singles' on Paper Monsters that hes trying to promote... unlike C2; where while the songs are beautiful, its not the same as an orginal songs cd release. Who knows what sort of debate we could have if Martin had released an album of orginal material.

Its really hard to compare the two cds, since they are so very different.

[~MODvox]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ElectroSwank
[b]Its easier to market something more commerical rather then an art record. which is how i view Martins' release... Tho I think musically it was much more creative and interesting then Daves'.


I couldn't agree more, and I love Paper Monsters...Some people take this stuff far too seriously. IT'S NOT EASY WRITING SONGS. We shouldn't put such high expectations on our favorite artists to continually pump out incredible music. Some artists are able to do this, but they few and far between. Sometimes an album may not be appealing to you at one time in life, but maybe a year or a month from now you'll hear it in a whole new way as a result of being in a different situation.

So let's bridge that gap between the Daves and the Marts, and just be thankfull they are all healthy, and writing at all. Wouldn't it suck more if they weren't doing anything anymore?! I'm feeling us Mode fans are on borrowed time with albums remaining to come as it is. I fear every one will be their last, and that my friends will be a sad sad day.

Peace,
James MODvox

ps - RECOIL RULES!!!

[~Efreak]

My eyes! My EYYYYYYEEEESSSSSS! ;)
Jamie

[Dizzyduck]

Originally posted by nwdve
Both of the these guys are good solo. I like both of their solo albums but I much prefer them as a team.

By the way...chart success doesn't always = quality. Last time I checked Beyonce and the horrid White Stripes were doing quite well on the charts...ugh!!!!!

Correctly said.

[~nwdve]

Maybe now we can move on to something infinitely more important...like say.... Britney Vs. Christina!

Ha!!!

[test]

How about Pepsi vs. Coke? :laugh:

[7red7]

I'll just say that after some serious reconsideration of my previous thoughts on this subject, and reflecting on some of my past posts in threads, I've come up with this conclusion...

Dave is pretty much going to be the commercial successor as far as releasing solo material is concerned...He'll make the Mtv vid slots, tour extensively, and generally be more readily available to the public...Thats what he does well, he is a frontman afterall, it's kind of been his job...

Mart will continue to be Mart and release albums geared more toward serious music fans...He tends to make albums for himself rather than for the adoring public's approval...Who knows, maybe he thinks he's released enough of his own stuff while with DM why not put out a couple interpretive albums to pay homage to his inspirations...Mart's probably more than likely at home locked away strumming miscilaneous tunes on a guitar: a musician first...

I guess thats the way it's supposed to be...However, I'm really looking foward to what the regrouping will bring us in 2004/5 with DM putting out new material...

DAN

[~gc42]

CD sales mean nothing.

that's all i wanted to add to this. :)

[~Efreak]

Originally posted by Stephanie
How about Pepsi vs. Coke? :laugh:

I only drink diet. But once again, I like them [Diet Pepsi and Diet Coke] equally. :)
Jamie

[7red7]

Originally posted by gc42
CD sales mean nothing.

that's all i wanted to add to this. :)

Very good point...It doesn't prove anything...I'd kill just to have a cd available for people to hear, I could care less if anyone bought it :)

It's all about the music :)

DAN (drinks Pepsi)

[~blitzman]

Originally posted by Stephanie
How about Pepsi vs. Coke? :laugh:

i actually prefer diet dr. pepper, with diet coke bringing up a close second. far behind in third is diet pepsi. but it's a necessary evil that i've had to learn to like since that's what is primarily at my place of work.

blitz

[Electroswank]

Originally posted by gc42
CD sales mean nothing.

If you're referring to the point that one doesnt' have to be a master musician or very talented to sell cd's, i'd agree with you.

As a whole if you think cd sales don't matter.... well then have a look at the 2800 people in the music business who have lost thier jobs this year and tell me to my face that it has NOTHING to do with people not buying cds.

[~Paradoxxx]

Originally posted by Gahan_Man
Dave Gahan has proved that Martin really will always need him much more then he needs him!


a) My p3n1s is bigger than yours
b) my father beats up your father
c) my Gahan is better than your Gore

I rest my case...

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by 7red7


Very good point...It doesn't prove anything...I'd kill just to have a cd available for people to hear, I could care less if anyone bought it :)

It's all about the music :)

DAN (drinks Pepsi)

See, Dan, it is and it isn't.

Let's be fair about this.

For me... I have the luxury of saying "It's all about the music". Why? I have a career. I have a source of income. Music is a hobby. I do it on my own agenda.

In varying degrees that's how it is for many of the artists on here.

The rules change when music BECOMES your living. You have to look for ways to generate income. It's easy, for instance, to judge someone for letting their song be thrown into a commercial... well, that might be paying for their kid's college tuition or more importantly their therapy bill.

It's easy for us to thrust a set of idyllic values onto recording artists and the recording industry in general.

I'll say it again. Don't damn the whole industry.

-The upper management: Damn them. They are the real ¤¤¤¤ ups...

But as Anna said. They aren't part of the 2800 people that have lost their job this year because CD sales have wained.

The issue is that money going into record companies is getting smaller which means less money to pay paychecks which means less jobs.

That is a business problem.

Where I disagree with what the record companies ¤¤¤¤¤ about is that I believe the onus is on them to fix the problem, not as much the government. I think they need to adjust their business plans. They owe it to their staff. Find better ways to distribute music.

If they're going to downsize 2800 people then they damn well better have a better reason than ¤¤¤¤ty sales. That doesn't cut it... that cuts it in cyclical product lines but the music market isn't as cyclical, it's innovation driven.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave

[~nwdve]

I think the labels and their employees are suffering for several reasons. Part of this is illegal file sharing. However, I am inclined to believe that most of the losses they are incurring is of their own making. The public is bored with the generic "If you like Britney...You'll like blah blah" approach. Or, "Look. Its another girl singer (Beyonce, Christina Aguilara) that can't sing a simple melody line!" Me am so sick of all the freaking out ad-libbers singing to weak music dressed up with very boring synths and drum machine programming. I always support the artist that I like, especially the independents (like the great folks that are part of this forum).

[~gc42]

Originally posted by ElectroSwank


If you're referring to the point that one doesnt' have to be a master musician or very talented to sell cd's, i'd agree with you.

As a whole if you think cd sales don't matter.... well then have a look at the 2800 people in the music business who have lost thier jobs this year and tell me to my face that it has NOTHING to do with people not buying cds.

maybe i should have said a bit more. what i meant was that CD sales do not differentiate between how good or bad an artist is.. yes i know people have to make a living, and in that sense it's very important.. but i mean in terms of talent. just because one sells more units than another, does not mean their music is better. especially in todays world, when the artists selling the most units have the least amount of talent.

[~nwdve]

The music that is selling today is like digging through a barrel of rotten, putrid apples just to find one good one! Defecate of the highest order...oops...I mean odor!

[NJOberheim]

Originally posted by nwdve
Its another girl singer (Beyonce, Christina Aguilara) that can't sing a simple melody line!" Me am so sick of all the freaking out ad-libbers singing to weak music dressed up with very boring synths and drum machine programming.

Dont' get me wrong, Im no Christina Aguilera fan. The music is awful but I have to give her credit. She can sing her ass off. As far as Britney goes, she has nice boobs.

[~nwdve]

Yes...Britney is well-equipped in more than one area (you mentioned at least two of these areas ha!!!). Christina singing her ass off? Hmm... Well she has capability no doubt. But just like Mariah Carey she "over" sings so much that you can't tell what the actual melody line is. Now I'm not saying that you have to be boring. Consider Barbara Streisand. Regardless of your preference of music (I'm not a big fan), she is a great singer because she knows when and how to use her voice and doesn't have to show us that she can hit every frickin' note above and below 2 octaves of the desired note within a millesecond. Aargh!!!! It drives me crazy. Especially when someone is singing the National Anthem or some other well-known classic and totally destroying it.

Now if we could just get Christina, Britney, and Dave Gahan to sing a trio of "Torn Between Two Lovers" DM style (a really sappy and quite tasteless 70's song for you younger types out there)...now that might be interesting!

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by nwdve
Yes...Britney is well-equipped in more than one area (you mentioned at least two of these areas ha!!!). Christina singing her ass off? Hmm... Well she has capability no doubt. But just like Mariah Carey she "over" sings so much that you can't tell what the actual melody line is. Now I'm not saying that you have to be boring. Consider Barbara Streisand. Regardless of your preference of music (I'm not a big fan), she is a great singer because she knows when and how to use her voice and doesn't have to show us that she can hit every frickin' note above and below 2 octaves of the desired note within a millesecond. Aargh!!!! It drives me crazy. Especially when someone is singing the National Anthem or some other well-known classic and totally destroying it.

Now if we could just get Christina, Britney, and Dave Gahan to sing a trio of "Torn Between Two Lovers" DM style (a really sappy and quite tasteless 70's song for you younger types out there)...now that might be interesting!

I don't doubt the talent. They have it.

And they have stage presence.

And boobs.

And it sells.

And that's that.

But does it make you happy to listen to? Or sad? Does it give you anything in return? If not, why we (as a culture) continue to feed the pig for them is beyond me... but *shrug* we do and that's marketing for ya.

Lowest common denominator usually wins.

Dave

[~nwdve]

Dave, I think we're probably on the same page when it comes to our appreciation of music. I apologize in advance for the next paragraphs of sermons.

My point is: While there are certainly a few acts that are selling mega-millions of slop-pop, the labels as a whole are suffering because they are not supporting acts that are original and interesting. They are afraid of a lack of sales, so they recycle the same crap over and over again. That is a mistake. How many albums are these few acts gonna put out in a two year period? Maybe one. So even if it sells millions...the label loses.

The greatest gains in the music industry were in the 60's when experimentation was encouraged and people were exposed to stuff that made them take a step back and say, "Wow. I think I like that!" Look at the scene from that era: Jimmy Hendricks, Jefferson Airplane, Cream, The Doors (now that was a keyboard band)....See what I mean? None of them were anything alike.

There are far too many A & R agents (lawyers in slightly cooler clothing) that know absolutely nothing of originality, risk or music for that matter, that are running...oops...I mean ruining the industry. If you don't believe me, try to get something that is different in these guys hands and see what they do with it! And then there are the station programmers who decide what everyone likes to listen to. The single charts are a sham! Those numbers do not reflect requests. The numbers are based on how many "spins" the programmer thought a song should have. Radio stations don't even take requests, except for maybe a little period on Friday night when its "all request hour."

The bottom line is...I am bored with this swill they try to force feed us! And I would bet that you are too!!!

Peace and all that crap

[~Dingerz]

I prefer Pepsi actually. And Pepsi Max is even better, unfortunately it is only sold in europe now..

I find it interesting how this thread has become a conversation about the music business. I could write 1,000 pages on how I feel about this subject but man, I just don't have the time!

However, I actually had this HUUGE debate at work today about it and you know what someone said? I was shocked - are you all sitting down? Oh wait, yeah, you probably are..

He believed that we should go back to the 1800's where artists were sponsored by an aristocrat. I mean ARRGH!!! Hello!! He based that idea on the belief that because artists are only around to make an almighty buck, it is all about boobs and ass and not music and therefore there really is no more passion or creativity. So ta da! Lump EVERY artists around today into one big pile and kick it out the door. There you have a solution! Unfortunately it doesn't work that way..

Though I do agree that too much of it is sold because it is a quick sell due to boobs and ass, I do not believe that returning to aristocratic sponsors is the right thing to do. I mean helllloo??

They then went on to argue that artists should only make money when touring and that the CD is public material and should be free. He went on to say that he went to see shows because he went for the experience, not that he knew the group. To which I thought:

HAVE YOU SEEN THE COST Of TICKETS TODAY???????

I am not going to pay $60-80 to go for an "experience" if I do not know what I am getting!!! So he then says - lower the cost of a concert ticket. Now sure, I do agree at that seeing I was paying one third the cost for shows just 12 years earlier. I can see it 10 years from now: "How much was your DM ticket?" "Oh, only $300!!" (no, I'm not talking about a broker ticket) But still, then if the artists do not make a cent for cd's and now they only make one third for live shows - they lose, lose, lose! I mean I am sure more people would go to a concert if you lowered the cost, but not *that* much more. So then the artist has to get a 9 to 5 job instead to pay bills and now both they and the fans lose seeing the artist can no longer make music because instead they have to go to work to live.

Oh but wait, say the idealistic. If you are an artist, you should still do your art regardless of pay or not. Now I do agree - but ahem.. What happens when you now need to go on tour after making an album for free, (not that it cost you any money or anything) and your boss doesn't like the idea of you having 3-6 months off? Um... Yeah...... I see, this whole idea really works.

So after such a conversation I was left to understand (sadly)

Most people in this world do not give a ¤¤¤¤ about music that way we do. I mean, I thought music was the one thing that never dissapears from society and the reason was because it is so instrumental to our lives. So I am still perplexed. No wait, I am not. The bottom line is:

If there are ways to get things for free, it doesn't matter what it is - you want them for FREE. All care, logic or compassion goes out the window and humans will always go for the free rather than put their money where it does belong (in the pockets of the artists who give so much to their lives) Sad.. Extremely sad..

So there's my rant for the day. So how do you fix this whole mess? Get rid of computers!! Oh wait, um..no, that would suck..

Um.. I have talked myself bluein the face over this and I know what has to be done. I just don't know how anyone can stop people from getting the music into those pesky files called mp3's...

Tara

[test]

You've lost me in your post.

[~melibita]

yummmm... pepsi...

[~VJay]

Originally posted by synth-master
Compare the music of Ultra to Violator, Music for the Masses, Black Celebration.

Can you hear all the complexity that is in all the albums that Alan put togather musically?

The music is just too plane after Alan left. Its mellow, dark and very simple (pure Martin). All the songs sound very similar in format with little variation. Alan added alot of spice and complexity to their sound by making DM stand out amoung all electronic-pop bands of the time.This is something that both Martin and Dave have admit to. As Dave well put it in his interview, "Alan was the sound architect of the band"

omg CHEERS!!

[~Dingerz]

I guess what I am really asking in the above thread is - and perhaps this should be a thread of its own, but - how do you solve the music industry problem today?

Today's debate at work just made me finally realize just how screwed up everything really is. How do you make people feel it their duty to pay the artists who give them so much? I keep saying it is the record industry's problem and they should go back to promoting REAL artists, not sex only. But I get this sinking feeling that even should that happen, the mere fact that music is available for free, peoiple will still not buy the albums.

Also, can an artist thrive without making any money off of cd's?
Is it enough to tour only? When all you have is this mass jumble of mp3's on some site, how can people choose what they really like when it is proven today that most people will only like what they are told to? It is a given fact that only a small minority of people go out to look for artists they like.

So really, should the record industry collapse in the future, thereby giving no direction to the general public by the way of record promotion and backing, will people just give up on music? Will it just become background rather than something people are passionate about?

Or am I just asking too many questions? Heh..

Tara

[test]

I think that a LOT of people are complacent these days about music. They know that only a select few artists will get radio play, so why bother searching out good music when some corporation decides what is fit for radio??

It's going to take something really big to change things. The monopoly on radio stations needs to be broken. Radio stations need to be able to play what they want to play, not what someone tells them to play. It's a shame turning on KROQ and not being able to hear dM, who were a staple back in the day.

It's frustrating to those of us who care about music. I don't know what to do to get things changed. I think that touring does help an artist, but so does a cd. It's the combination of both that help the artist.

I do think that providing full length *streaming* songs will give people the taste of the music. I wish that bands would stream entire songs so that you can hear them and decide. Sometimes a 30 second clip just doesn't give you the full flavor of the song. I know that was true for Goldfrapp. The clips weren't a true indication of how good her music is. I didn't like her, but when I heard entire songs, my opinion changed. I own her cds. I like her music. I support her art.

[~nwdve]

Right on Stephanie! Down with Clear Channel with its playlist configured a month ahead of time!

[test]

I don't know how radio is considered cutting edge these days? :laugh:

[~MODvox]

FM 94.9 is a great radio station here in San Diego. They're not ran by Clear Channel, and they play Depeche Mode in their regular rotation. I was sold on them the night I heard them play This Mortal Coil. Now that's a good radio station! The best thing about them is that they pride themselves on not talking over the beginning or end of any song they play, and they don't! Every radio station should be so good.

James MODvox

[test]

We had a good one here in the LA area: Y107. They played dM LIVE BOOTLEGS!!!! They were everything KROQ was and then some. They changed their format a few years ago. Too bad too! :(

[~nwdve]

In Houston we have KTRU, which is Rice University's station, that plays some really cool and strange electronic music from time to time. To get any DM on the radio, you have to listen to the best of the 80's station which would probably follow up a DM song with a Bon Jovi piece of defecate....Aaargh!!!!!

[Electroswank]

That's probably one of the key factors in whats wrong with the industry these days; Monopolies. you find them in the ticket schemes, radio playlists, record stores, even on video music channels (sorry i know thats' an oxymoron since mtv and vh1 dont really play videos that often) I'd say the other factor is that people, now that they've gotten a taste of what free music feels like, are too stubborn to buy music.

So lets see what we've got:
People are ¤¤¤¤¤ing about whats on tv and radio and decide to go on thier computers and just download free music illegally, cos they can't find the cds they like at retail shops - besides, all the endcaps displays feature Beyonce or 50 cent. (The labels with money like to take over and redecorate the stores with the artists they are promoting, merely cos they have the cash and can buy into some huge package)

Since no one is listening or watching then buying, none of those records make money... then since no one is going to the shows, that residual money and possible profits from merchandise sold is lost. Throw in to this mix the results of various studies that show the average American has to stretch their entertainment dollar farther now, with more people buying movies, and games.

So how DO you fix this?
Artists/musicians multiplying at alarming speeds, conjesting the market - blocking the legitimate artists that doesn't get the props or paychecks they deserve for making the effort... The solution should be competive, obviously, but fair.... it's quite a problem...

I'd be curious to see what you guys think on this subject.

[~xesquire]

I worked for both CBS and ClearChannel in the 90's as a DJ and left the industry becuase I got so fed up with it... Radio has not been about the music for a LONG LONG time now.

Here I was, in the middle of the big corporate radio giants, pushing new music (at the time) by Real Life, Human League, Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode, etc, which they all used to play, then suddenly they pulled the plug on programming.

Here's how the "big companies" work now. Consultants. Big consulting firms (Zapolean is the biggest) are paid to TELL the radio big wigs what should be played. These consultants are paid by record companies to listen to and promote thier artists... The big record companies spend the most cash... Killing any chances for indie labels and artists..

I would suggest great new music, (music which people would flock to me when I would DJ an evet asking what it was..) and if it was not approved by the consultants, they just laughed.

I left a small indie station in North Carolina with hopes of spreading the same music and ideas (the very core of my getting into radio) only to have a major reality check...

Radio is dead!! The Internet and Satelite Radio have taken over allowing for real choice. Support your local indie and college stations, for they will not last forever. And continue to support the indie artists you love...

X Esquire

It would seem I am not the only one who thinks radio is on the way out:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/986050.asp?0cv=CB20

X Esquire

[~voodooru]

I hate the thought of Clear Channel! and the radio industry in general!!argh!

I even named our Souvenir Records Label Compilation "THE CLEAR CHANNEL BOYCOTT" fook them!

The compilation has the same tunes that you can get for free from us:
http://www.souvenirrecords.com/music_1.html

These comps are for promotional giveaways... so if you make it to the final 2 CM release gigs you can get one :)

[~Dingerz]

Hrm, I never thought of that - make radio's completely independant again. See, I gave up on radio long time ago so it didn't even occur to me. But it's true! Make radio's play what they think is good - and what people call in and ask for.

I mean I know that even the top 20 spots in the record stores are paid for - it is not all a real reflection of what is big. When you get to that - there really is no hope left.

Those buying music should be able to choose what they like - not some big wig in an office who hasn't listened to music since the 1960's.. But - would the record companies be willing to give up the control to possibly save their asses?

Tara

[7red7]

See, Dan, it is and it isn't.

Let's be fair about this.

For me... I have the luxury of saying "It's all about the music". Why? I have a career. I have a source of income. Music is a hobby. I do it on my own agenda.

In varying degrees that's how it is for many of the artists on here.

The rules change when music BECOMES your living. You have to look for ways to generate income. It's easy, for instance, to judge someone for letting their song be thrown into a commercial... well, that might be paying for their kid's college tuition or more importantly their therapy bill.

It's easy for us to thrust a set of idyllic values onto recording artists and the recording industry in general.

Very true, I never thought about it like that as I responded earlier...For me it's also a hobby, so I guess my opinion stemmed from that...

For those struggling, bust a** hardworking musicians out there, keep at it friends, good things come in time :)

DAN

[~MaxMode]

I can't understand how some people don't like " ULTRA "
that's DM most brilliant album and my personal favorite.

Gahan and Gore? hummm! just for the record one of the main reasons i love this band so much it's because of Mr Dave Gahan's voice, he is my personal DM member. I also like Gore very much but he's definitely a big egomania.

[~nwdve]

I always thought Gore to be the quiet, deep thinker of the bunch. Regardless, if either David or Martin leaves....there will be no more DM!

Maybe Fletch could put out a concept albums like..."Norwegian Whaling Songs."

[~melibita]

I think that all three are vital to Depeche Mode. I doubt Fletch just sits around and just gets up when Gore or Dave tells him to. Gore might be the songwriter and Dave might be the frontman, but all are important to Depeche Mode. Just my opinion, no hard feelings.

[test]

Originally posted by MaxMode
..... I also like Gore very much but he's definitely a big egomania.

I don't see that Martin has an ego. I don't see it at all. I would definitely say that Dave has an ego, but Martin, no way.

[~nwdve]

Originally posted by melibita
I think that all three are vital to Depeche Mode. I doubt Fletch just sits around and just gets up when Gore or Dave tells him to. Gore might be the songwriter and Dave might be the frontman, but all are important to Depeche Mode. Just my opinion, no hard feelings.

No offense taken...I was joking! He probably does a lot more than he gets credit for. Nor do I believe that Gore just lets some programmer go off on his music without his involvement. Now if we can just get Wilder back, DM would be complete.

[~Dingerz]

Mart may be quiet but because one is quiet does not mean they don't have an ego..

Furthermore, why is the word "ego" always interpreted badly? One needs ego to believe in oneself. One needs ego to accomplish anything. Ego is a good thing - unless it is taken too far.

All I see concerning David is that yeah, he has ego and it is a terrific thing, because his ego is simply CONFIDENCE - his ability to believe that he can reach for additional goals and to achieve on his own terms. Nowhere has David ever said he's better than Mart. David has said he can exist and accomplsih without mart if needs be - but that is FAR far different than saying he is better than mart (which in that case would be extreme ego)

I see no wrong in David striving to accomplish something for himself and be proud of it. That is called confidence, not egotistical.. Don't mix the two..

Additionally, one could call David egotistical if he said that it was now necessary that he have complete control over the bands songwriting and musical direction, cause well, he can do it better. But this is NOT the case. David simply wants a bit of manouver room for mart to consider some of his ideas. For martin to resist, I would say that would be extreme ego - to the point of believing noone has any better ideas than oneself. So if we see another dm album, I'd damn well say it turned out that neither had extreme ego. Let's not point fingers until we see results, shall we? :)

Keep Moding
Tara :)

PS - On the Fletch note - I was just thinking..

Alright, he does nothing musically for the band. It would be worse if he simply sat back and enjoyed his millions made by well, a few interviews and playing a few notes along the way.

But you know what makes it much better? At least the guy has persued his own interests and done things for himself. (restaurant, Client) So at least he has taken on responsibility and given himself some challenges in life. So in my books, he's cool! Plus, he's good with the fans while on tour.

[~ericrypt]

I love Mode, I can speculate what could or could not happen to them I get blue in the face, fact of the matter is, the memories they've given me are already engraved. Can't break that up! Mode is, and will always be, the best band in the world to me.

poor Martin!

[test]

He was arrested in Denver, Colorado for disturbing the peace. He was in his hotel room and had his stereo on too loud. Someone called the cops. :rolleyes: He's such a trouble maker. Only in my home state. :laugh:

[~ericrypt]

I know, it's just a funny picture, that's all....

[test]

Like I said, only in my home state. heh!

[test]

he actually looks cute in that one:o, but he was only arrested because he had his stereo on too loud?? what a waste of time!!):>, he's so evil:laugh:

[~CRISTAL FAN]

My point of view:

Violator is better than SOFAD. SOFAD is better than Ultra and Ultra is better than Exciter!!

[~nwdve]

Originally posted by CRISTAL FAN
My point of view:

Violator is better than SOFAD. SOFAD is better than Ultra and Ultra is better than Exciter!!

I disagree. They're all great albums but:

SOFAD is better than Violator, Violator is better than Ultra, and Ultra is better than Exciter.

Just my .02

[~ericrypt]

Black Celebration is better than ALL of those! he! he!

[test]

Damn straight! That is THE masterpiece!!!!! :D

[~gc42]

Originally posted by ericrypt
Black Celebration is better than ALL of those! he! he!

:nod:

[~Efreak]

Originally posted by gc42


:nod:
:nod::nod::nod:
Jamie

[~nwdve]

Yeah yeah! But is it as good as Tiny Tims "Tip toe thru the Tulips?" or...Melanies "I've got a brand new pair of roller skates?"


What about "A Broken Frame"? Where would you put that in the order of things.

I like it a lot because they were using some really cool modular synths for a good amount of the sounds. After that DM got more heavy into sampling, which was certainly not a bad thing. I just liked hearing those old mods.

[test]

I LOVE A Broken Frame. I think it's fantastic! I know that a lot of dM fans don't like it, but I do. I would rank it probably number 6 or 7 in my dM favorite albums. It's a really great album. :)

[~Efreak]

I like it, Steph! :):):)
Jamie

[~paxyll]

I thought A Broken Frame was a good transition between the bloopy Vince Clarke pop on Speak & Spell, and the harsh beauty of Alan Wilder's programming skills on Construction Time Again. It's light, yet melodic. It seems to have a very soothing, nursery rhyme feel to the songs...

[test]

It has the Sun and the Rainfall on it. That's a classic song! :D

[~Efreak]

I'm grabbing my copy as we speak. I haven't heard this in a while...
Jamie

[~paxyll]

Originally posted by Efreak
I'm grabbing my copy as we speak. I haven't heard this in a while...
Jamie

Heh - I did the same thing a few minutes ago...

[test]

It also has: Leave in Silence, See You, Monument, Nothing to Fear, Shouldn't Have Done That and Satellite on it. It can't be *that* bad an album. ;)

[~nwdve]

"A Broken Frame" is one of my favorites right now. Sure it sounds dated and all that, but there's something magnetic about it that I can't explain. I put it a few notches above "Speak & Spell", even though I am a big Vince Clarke fan. I think Vince drastically improved after leaving the mode.

[NJOberheim]

I absolutely love 'A Broken Frame'. It's still among my favorites. I remember being a little dissappointed in it when I first heard it cause it wasn't like 'Speak and Spell'. Afer listening to it a few times, the moodiness/darkness of it really got me.

[~Efreak]

I listened to it again last evening. It still sounds as fresh as the day I bought it. The one great thing about having so many CDs, is constantly rediscovering a gem from a few years back. Now I'm back in Depeche 'Mode'. Love it!
~ J

[~ericrypt]

"The sun and the rainfall" .......nuff said.

[~ElectroM]

I like Daves album much much better.
Martin is not a very good musician.
DM were better and more qualitet when there was still Alan in the band.
Why the **** didn't Fletch leave instead of Alan?!?!?!?!?!

Anyway DM aren't what they used to be, although they are still my personal No.1!

[~cosmicity]

Martin is not a very good musician? Are you serious?

Hey, I totally respect people's opinions and I'm fine if everyone here wants to choose Dave or Martin as a favorite. Whatever.

But to say you're a huge Depeche Mode fan and then say Martin is not a good musician in the same post makes no sense to me. Love or hate his latest solo effort, Martin is the SONGWRITER for every single DM song! Without his musicianship, you'd have no DM at all. No music, no lyrics. Whether you admit it or not, if you love DM, you love him as a musician. Sounds to me like you just like his songs better channeled through Alan's programming and with Dave's voice on the recording. That would make a lot more sense, anyway! ;-)

[~intervox]

agreed, my favorite song is still shake the disease, of which I have a demo version of martin and guitar, and it's brilliant. martin is an incredible songwriter, his sense of chord progression manipulation is inspiring...

[~cliffwalk]

Originally posted by cosmicity
Martin is not a very good musician? Are you serious? But to say you're a huge Depeche Mode fan and then say Martin is not a good musician in the same post makes no sense to me. Love or hate his latest solo effort, Martin is the SONGWRITER for every single DM song! Without his musicianship, you'd have no DM at all.

I've joked about this before. After CF2 came out lots of people who didn't care for the song selection said "What I really want is an album of Martin Gore originals".

It's called a Depeche Mode album.

It's been like 10 years since Alan Wilder left. That's done for now.. it would have been nice if Martin and Alan were able to figure out a way to collaborate more closely in a fashion that made Alan feel fulfilled enough to stay... but, bands are rarely democracies and sometimes there's only room for one.

This whole David vs. Martin vs. Alan arguement confuzzles me to no end. David is a performer/singer... an arena-grade HAM... LOVES the spotlight, loves the audience. Martin is a songwriter. Alan is a programmer. Apples to Melons to Avacados. Where is the true argument?

Dave

[~Jupiter 4]

"See You" is just wonderful--I am partial to "The Meaning of Love." I've seen performances from TOTP, which are wonderful (and sort of funny at the same time!)

[NJOberheim]

Jup,

What's TOTP?

[test]

TOTP is Top of the Pops. It's a British TV show. Bands go and perform a song there. It's kind of like American Bandstand minus the kids dancing.

[~gc42]

Originally posted by ElectroM
I like Daves album much much better.
Martin is not a very good musician.

how can you say a guy who plays keyboards, plays guitar, can sing, and write incredible melodies.. not a good musician? dude, wtf are you smoking? personal opinions are one thing.. but this is just a flat out untruth. he's an incredible musician.

[test]

At least Martin Gore CAN write music AND lyrics, unlike Dave who can only write lyrics. You may not like Martin as a musician but to say that he's not a good musician is simply not true.

[~ericrypt]

Being a hardcore Mode man myself, I'll be the first to admit, Martin's voice fell to total crap! I mean, listen to the recent live stuff he did on the whole "Evening with..." and you see him completely struggling with, and in most cases leaving out, those high notes that swooned ladies all over the nation. Long gone are the days when Martin would hit angelic notes on "Somebody" (take a prime example of "Live in Hamburg"), now you see him seem to have to reach up in the air every time he wants to even get remotely there. Granted, the man's aged, but this deep, monotoned voice that took over doesn't quite seem to do the trick like it used to. Just my two cents.

[test]

What show did you listen to???? He was incredible. Martin sounds better now than he ever has. If you want to talk about a voice that fell to crap talk about Dave Gahan. His voice is awful now. The man thinks the only way to perform a concert is to scream. Argh!

[~ericrypt]

I kinda had a feeling we would disagree on this one Stephanie, and that's ok right? I heard the version from L.A. from his show up there, but it does'nt matter (pardon the pun). I never said Dave's voice didn't go either, it has, but not as much as Martin's. I just really miss songs like "Sometimes" and "It does'nt matter two" where those high notes rocked my world and it just does'nt seem like we'll (or I'll) ever see them again.....

[test]

Which night did you listen to? He could still melt me with A Question of Lust both nights. I just stood there in awe watching him perform. He was utterly fantastic. His voice and range have gotten better as he's aged. I cannot say the same for Dave. sigh!

We can disagree but you have to know that I will defend Martin against all the Dave people who say that Dave is better than Martin. I have caused a scene before and I will do it again because I feel that Martin is the better of the two. :D ;) :laugh:

[~ericrypt]

I'm sure you probably tore it up in some forums,leaving behind a trail of feathers and blood on some poor gardners' sorry behind and I think that's great you defend Ol' M.Lee, but you know as well as I do they could'nt have made B.C without the collective whole and THAT is kinda where I stand. Solo efforts mean someting for the individual artist, but the band as a whole (with yes, even Andy) is more what I'm interested in. Martin and Dave are friends, no doubt about that, taking sides for me would be like choosing which is a better freind, can't do it. DM has gotten me out of some serious shi_ in my life. And like you, I've probably spent close to a few thousand dollars in my lifetime on this band, and now (sniff) my 7 year old daughter is starting to totally love them. I get defensive in general when these types of forums pop up "Gahan puts Gore in his place", I think, "What in the wide world of sports are you TALKING about?!" and then I think, "whatever", the fans who had glass shattered on their head at the L.A. Riots, the people who waited days for SOFAD to come out in freezing conditions, the ones who are IN the song when they listen, they'll see right through this lame thread idea.
P.S. sorry about the Great American Novel.

[test]

Nope, no blood or anything from me. I too get tired of people writing threads about how Dave put Martin in his place. THAT gets annoying as well. I will NOT sit around and watch people trash Martin. They seem to forget that HE was the one responsible for WRITING the dM albums. YES, it takes more than that to make a dM record. YES, Alan contributed to their classic awesome sound. Yes, he worked his butt off in the studio. Yes, it was a collective elaboration.

I am just sick and tired of seeing people bash Martin Gore. They think it's cool and hip to slam on Martin. They say that he isn't a very good musician. He may not be Alan Wilder, but he CAN write music and he has written some fine music.

I am sick and tired of reading threads that say that Dave Gahan has put Martin Gore in his place. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!!! If anyone has been put in his place, it's Dave Gahan. His solo effort wasn't the big success that he was hoping for. Dave Gahan solo hasn't made that big a splash. He's going to have to go back to dM and suck it up if he EVER intends on releasing another solo album again. Mute won't back him if he leaves dM. Now, tell me is THAT where Dave put Martin in his place??? Dave Gahan can't ever hope of releasing anything solo if dM breaks up now. The record company won't back him. DM hardcore fans won't be flocking to see him. It will be only a diehard few that do. I guess that's how Dave is going to put Martin in his place. :rolleyes:

[~ericrypt]

Ha! Ha! Stephanie, you're allright in my book girl! I honestly could not have said it better myself!

[test]

I just LOVE a troll. They have their opinions, start a thread and then disappear. If you have an opinion, that's fine. At least be big enough to debate something if you start a thread. There is nothing worse than someone who starts a controversial thread and then runs off. :rolleyes:

[~MODvox]

I've been totally digging on CF2 for the last couple weeks. I love those live cuts on the website from L.A. And I think the reason his voice might sound a bit more gritty towards the latter half of the set is because with dM he only steps out for a few here and there. As a singer I can submit first hand that after six or seven songs the pipes start to get a little more scratchy. I have to say that I love the grit he has on some of those live cuts. My favorite is Lost In The Stars. "and sometimes it seems maybe god's gone away..." I mean, that's just sooooo fooking cool!!! I also really really like the clips of By This River and Coming Back To You. Martin Gore is always going to be on the top of my list of most talented songwriters. Even higher on the list that John Lennon, and I'm a HUGE Beatles/Lennon fan.

On the other side of the coin, I still think Dave's album is good. I don't make any comparisons because, really, you can't. Both albums are like night and day. I'm a night person, but that doesn't mean I don't love going to the beach on a sunny day. :D

Peace,
James MODvox

[test]

You need to get a copy of the last show on dvd or video!! The second night, he brought out his girls: Viva and Eva to sing Loverman with him. Viva can sing!!!! She's the shyer of the two girls. Eva is the ham of the family. Yet, she's short just like Martin is. Both girls are talented like their father. I wonder if Jack Gahan can sing?

[~Efreak]

Originally posted by Stephanie
I just LOVE a troll. They have their opinions, start a thread and then disappear. If you have an opinion, that's fine. At least be big enough to debate something if you start a thread. There is nothing worse than someone who starts a controversial thread and then runs off. :rolleyes:

OUI! :nod:
Jamie

[~MaxMode]

Well Well!
What a mess!
At least i'm here to defend My friend Gahan, :) my personal DM member. Just a couple of days ago i saw the Gahan's Concert on Direct TV, and it was great. Dave Gahan is Depeche Mode Live my friends that's a fact. The guy is a great frontman one of the best i've ever seen, and by the way his voice still great and amazing as allways, Martin Gore is also great, one of the best songwriters in music History, the only difference is that he's not as good live performer as Gahan is, and if you don't think so my dear why you think that Dave Gahan is called the voice of DM? Even Martin himself said years ago when the Ultra album was released, that it would be imposible for DM not to have Dave as the lead Singer why ? well just because he has allways felt that Gahan's voice was better and sweeter thant his own...Andy Fletcher also said that Dave's Voice and Martin's songs are Depeche Mode. You have to understand that everytime that someone mention DM the first thing that comes to peoples minds it's Gahan's face, jeje:)
I still love Martin Gore and i also know that he's an incredible musician, but come on ! why you have to go that far? and say that just because you like him more than Gahan and blah blah blah! that Mute record won't even back Dave's next solo project
My friend thats just Ridiculous! just try to check him out on DIRECT TV this whole weekend and then we can talk ok?

By the way I know my English writing sucks but anyway I'm sure you'll get the idea....

If you love DM I love you too just remember that :)

[test]

:nod::nod::nod::nod:

amen!:laugh:


Namárië mellon nîn!

[test]

Mute will NOT release a Dave Gahan solo album #2 if he leaves dM. THAT is a definite. Why would they back a man who left a succcessful group to do his own solo effort when the first one wasn't a huge commercial success???? dM are money makers for Mute. They won't be happy to have that stop!!! THAT is what I meant when I said Mute won't back another solo effort. They aren't going to pour money into a venture that isn't successful.

The FANS aren't going to be there like they were with the first album and tour. They were hardly there for him the first time around. He's been playing to audiences in MUCH smaller arenas for his tour now. He could NOT sell out any cities here in the USA. In fact, some of his venues had to be moved to smaller places because they were sooo empty.

Most dM diehards will be ANGRY with Dave if he leaves dM after his Paper Monsters album and tour. MOST dM diehards do NOT like his album. They will be upset that Dave broke the band up. They aren't going to flock to see him again. They aren't going to run out and buy any more of his releases. He's been very luck with this release.

Mute may not be the best record company around, but they know that without the diehards, Dave's only going to have a few fans of his own. They won't be enough to cover costs for another album, singles and a tour. His album and tour haven't been a HUGE success, so they aren't going to throw money at Dave just to make him happy.

Dave has a very small budget with Paper Monsters. He wasn't given the amounts of money that a dM project is given. He himself has said that in interviews. The little money that he was given for the first project certainly will NOT be there for the second one.

A Martin Gore solo project isn't given a lot of money either. His project is mainly for him and the dM diehards. Just look at the Loverman single that will be released on Monday. It's only being released in Europe. It isn't going to be released here in the U.S because Reprise isn't backing it. Martin's 2 solo projects were not designed to be released to the chart going public, unlike Dave's. Martin's albums were cover albums. Those don't usually burn up the charts or get massive airplay. Martin's albums were done out of boredom. He was in between projects and wanted something to do. He himself knows that they aren't going to sell a whole lot. He knows that only the few diehards will buy the album.

Dave Gahan's solo album was meant to chart. It was meant to catch everyone's attention and give him the success that he wanted as a solo artist. This didn't happen. He has a mediocre album, and I am talking about the lyrics here. He cannot write music. He wanted to be able leave dM and be on his own. No matter what he does, he cannot distance himself enough from dM. It follows him. Most people who go to his shows go for the DM songs. They don't really care about the Dave Gahan songs. You can hear it from the audience when he launches into a dM song. They wake up and get excited. That doesn't happen with the Dave songs.

All of those things when combined together, are the reason why Mute won't release another Dave Gahan solo album. The first one wasn't huge. Dave's managed to release a mediocre album. He's very lucky that he was able to do even that. If he would have just been on his own, I highly doubt that he would have been able to do so unless he did it on his own. He's a very lucky man who should be grateful for what he has, instead of being the whiny brat that he has been!

As for this whole mess, well I didn't start this thread. This whole thread was started to cause a mess. That was the reason for doing so. The person who started it wanted to start something. If you have an opinion, that's great. Fine! Be prepared to back it up instead of starting something very controversial and then run away. That's a troll. I haven't started any Paper Monsters sucks threads, now have I? I have said it. I back it up, but I don't go starting threads to piss people off.

[~MODvox]

If and when dM do split, I personally would be content with if we, the fans, were provided with Counterfeit3, 4, 5, 6...!!! And if Dave wants to put out some stuff, that would be cool too. I'm always gonna love anything the various members release because they all had a hand in creating the music that I've been in love with more than half my life! I mean, memories like making out to Shake The Disease when I was a wee lad...ah, those were the carefree days of yore that proved to me just how important Mode is to the music world ( and my love life! :laugh: ). How much you wanna bet they don't even get a nod for the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame...wouldn't that be so like their career. Huge band, no recognition on any grand scale. Hell yes! Depeche Mode forever!

Peace and love ya'll,

James MODvox

[test]

I think you are right, James. Unfortunately, dM won't get the deserved recognition. sigh! :( At least we have our memories and our collections! :D

[~ericrypt]

And with that, I think it may be time to lay this thread to rest

[test]

I agree with you wholeheartedly! I won't reply if you won't reply. ;) :laugh:

[~MODvox]

agreed

"and so this is christmas, and what have you got? war is over, if you want it."


Peace,
James MODvox

[~Dingerz]

Stephanie - why do you keep harping on the fact that apparently because david's album didn't sell millions, it's a big flop? That is so nonsense. Do you believe then that Britney Spears is god cause she sells waaay more than any of martin's penned songs? Do you?? Album sales mean NOTHING and I know you know that.

David's album was a success. It has sold a million copies worldwide. Fans flocked to see his show live. No, he didn't sell out 15,000 seater arenas but he NEVER INTENDED TO. You keep making it out that because David didn't play to as many as DM gets that somehow that means his album is a failure or that his tour is a failure. Saying that David's album was "meant to chart" and that because it didn't sell what britney does then therefore it's a flop is pure crap. Mart's album was meant to sell too.. It didn't sell as well. That is that and it isn't a dig againt mart. It's just fact.

In fact, one thing showing that David has no big ass ego is that he is completely content playing to the few thousand fans that come to see him. He finds it a challenge to start from the bottom again. Why can you not just appreciate that instead of harping on him as if he has comitted a crime by not selling 6 million copies? All he has done is do something for himself. The only argument you only cling to is how much his album is somehow a "flop" and that noone would ever see him if DM ended. That may be your opinion, but it sure isn't everyone elses.

So if you are sick of seeing people dump on martin - why on earth are you being a hypocrite and doing the same to David?

Finally - who are you to say that if DM ended, Mute would not release David's solo albums? Have you talked to a Mute rep about that? If so, please let me know cause that would be news to me. Again, I am not saying this as a nasty comment - but you did say it with such force that I was wondering where your verification came from...

I like mart AND David and I have always maintained that you can hate or love either albums or both and criticise them all you want -but to attack either is rediculous. If you want people to stop bagging on mart do the same regarding David.. Remember, there are two sides of the story.

You stated the below:

"Most people who go to his shows go for the DM songs. They don't really care about the Dave Gahan songs. You can hear it from the audience when he launches into a dM song. They wake up and get excited. That doesn't happen with the Dave songs. "

This is not true, at least not at all at the 3 shows I went to. Plus, new songs tend to always get less excitement from fans than old classic ones. This happens even at recent dm shows - less excitement for exciter songs etc. Before that it was Ultra songs and now people go crazy for those. Interesting no?

You also said:

"Most dM diehards will be ANGRY with Dave if he leaves dM after his Paper Monsters album and tour. MOST dM diehards do NOT like his album. They will be upset that Dave broke the band up. They aren't going to flock to see him again. They aren't going to run out and buy any more of his releases. He's been very luck with this release."

Let me get this straight - if *David* broke the band up? If DM broke up it instantly becomes David's fault? Really.. Interesting... Remeber it takes TWO to tango.. Not just one.

And also "most diehards do not like david's album" is not a true statement. Regarding the solo efforts I see an almost 50% split on who likes what album. I actually thought prior to release that david's album would be bagged on but that did not happen. This is your opinion again - not everyone's.

Just remember that your opinion is not everyone else's. I know you are passionate about mart and I David - but I just cringe when I see you bagging David left right and centre when you finally fall over the edge. And it looks bad - especially since you were doing so in hopes to show why it is wrong to bag on Mart...(?!?!?)

Tara

[test]

Geez Tara, can't you say anything in under a 1,000 words? :rolleyes: No, you can't.

I am just sick and tired of people slagging on Martin with threads of this type. I am sick of the whole Dave taught Martin a lesson. No, he didn't. So sorry to rain on your parade.

I didn't intend to reply to this thread again but Tara SHUT your stupid mouth! If you want to continue this same conversation take it private. We are done with all this here. I won't reply to you here, so slam away. I know that you will.

[~Dingerz]

I don't slam. I only ask questions, that's all. And secondly, there are not many "david taught martin a lesson" threads at all around the net. In fact, this is like the only one I know of. (oh wait, it was started on dm.com by the SAME person but it didn't go far)

And I like how you've decided that "we" are done with it after a right old good david bashing.. I just thought I'd add my last 2 cents too. Sorry if that was a crime..

Thanks for telling me to shut up though... Real adult like.

Anyways, I'm done too! :)

Tara

[~d3lions]

Can we all just get along???? Listen some of us don't like either Martin's or David's solo stuff...BUT WE ALL AGREE we like them with DM. I personally like ALAN's WORK. You don't see me puting anything about Alan being better then Dave and Mart???

The bottom line...IT DOESN't MATTER. Give them the support they need. Buy their records (if you like them). Enjoy their work and lets hope the next DM cd is better then the last.

AL

[NJOberheim]

d3lions,

Alan? what r u talking about? i think you need to shut your mouth!

:) :)

[~d3lions]

LOL, it was a joke. LMAO.

SPYCY aren't we?

[NJOberheim]

lol.

[~Dingerz]

You know, I did have a good laugh the day I finally saw a post on the dm.com board where a new fan asked "who is this alan guy??"

Keep Moding
Tara :)

[~d3lions]

"Who is this Alan Guy????" LMAO..I wonder what type of response he/she got.

lol

[~Dingerz]

she got a lot of "LOL's" and "*slapping forhead*" and people saying that they were wondering when this question would become regular.

Nonetheless it's cool to know mode are still recruiting fans today who will ask that question.

Keep Moding
Tara :)

[~Paradoxxx]

"Who is this Alan guy?" HAHAHAH Oh dear... talking about not doing your homework... :D

[7red7]

I always got a real kick out of being at a record store and seeing a really young kid with some friends looking at the DM stuff, and saing..."Dude, you have to hear this stuff, they have a song on here called Enjoy The Silence that's gonna be huge one day!"...

To some people, it might make you laugh histerically and utter something spiteful under your breath at the kids for being naive to DM, but to me it always makes me kinda smile and nod knowing that DM will live on with a new generation of fans :)